# Definition of a patty melt.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425 "2016-01-27T23:08:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/1 "2016-01-27T23:08:38Z")
The patty melt I know is, ideally: Rye bread, grilled Cheese, melted: can be swiss or cheddar grilled onions ground beef patty I maintain that the defining characteristics of a patty melt are the patty and the melted cheese on grilled bread. Meaning the onions can be committed and the types of bread and cheeses can change. A friend insists that it isn’t a patty melt without onions, and it’s dicey if the bread isn’t rye. The Dope says? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/2 "2016-01-27T23:14:29Z")
While I agree a patty melt must have a patty and melted cheese to be even considered in the running, I’ve never had, and wouldn’t get one not on rye bread. Onions, i could go either way. ---
**Author:** ![TheChileanBlob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thechileanblob/32/435_2.png) [@TheChileanBlob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheChileanBlob)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/3 "2016-01-27T23:18:58Z")
I think the onions are a default part of it. You can get a patty melt without onions and it will still be a patty melt, but you’d have to _ask_ for no onions. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/4 "2016-01-27T23:23:42Z")
Yeah, if I order one without substitutions, I will be put off if there are no onions. In the least, it doesn’t feel “substantial” that way. But if I specify no onions (never!), it won’t automatically become something else. The rye shouldn’t be pumpernickel-dark. I figure they can come with pickles and the condiments are usually mustard, but not necessary. Sometimes they’re served with the top piece of bread on the side. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/5 "2016-01-27T23:39:41Z")
[Wikipedia is wrong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_melt). A patty melt isn’t a patty melt without grilled onions. I’ve never heard of such a thing. Without them, it’s just a cheeseburger on grilled rye. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/6 "2016-01-28T00:36:31Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > [Wikipedia is wrong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_melt). A patty melt isn’t a patty melt without grilled onions. I’ve never heard of such a thing. Without them, it’s just a cheeseburger on grilled rye. See the right bar, where they aren’t marked as optional. There is some discussion on the talk page. And the onions should be grilled/sauteed/etc., not raw! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/7 "2016-01-28T00:40:20Z")
Deviation Is Treason! No Substitutions or Alterations Will Be Tolerated! Even considering cheddar is dangerously close to Sedition. Rye, patty, Swiss, grilled onions. Period. Full stop. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/8 "2016-01-28T00:43:10Z")
Onions are not necessary, that’s just being silly. Rye is better but isn’t the default in my experience. Sourdough is nice too. > [@silenus](#): > > Deviation Is Treason! No Substitutions or Alterations Will Be Tolerated! > > Even considering cheddar is dangerously close to Sedition. Rye, patty, Swiss, grilled onions. Period. Full stop. I have NEVER ever gotten one with swiss cheese. It’s always cheddar. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/9 "2016-01-28T01:17:46Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Onions are not necessary, that’s just being silly. > Rye is better but isn’t the default in my experience. Sourdough is nice too. > > I have NEVER ever gotten one with swiss cheese. It’s always cheddar. I have never had one with cheddar. Always swiss. And if there are onions at all, they are grilled. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/10 "2016-01-28T01:41:03Z")
Onions, being onions, are always optional. Except for onion soup or French onion dip, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![HeXen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@HeXen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeXen)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/11 "2016-01-28T01:48:30Z")
I hate Rye bread and my replacement is Sour dough. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/12 "2016-01-28T02:00:36Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Deviation Is Treason! No Substitutions or Alterations Will Be Tolerated! > > Even considering cheddar is dangerously close to Sedition. Rye, patty, Swiss, grilled onions. Period. Full stop. I disagree about the cheese part (I don’t think I’ve ever had a patty melt with Swiss), but the rest I agree with. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/13 "2016-01-28T02:04:13Z")
I wonder if mapping the cheese choice would yield any interesting results. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/14 "2016-01-28T02:04:15Z")
Haven’t had one in years, but I’m sure it was always Cheddar. And the grilled (sauteed?) onions have to be CHOPPED, not sliced. So they moosh into the meat, cheese, and rye. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/15 "2016-01-28T02:04:29Z")
I’ve never heard of a patty melt, although it doesn’t look unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/16 "2016-01-28T02:05:44Z")
And patty melts HAVE to be served with 1000 Island dressing. Mustard is an optional addition, but the dressing has to be on the plate when served. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/17 "2016-01-28T02:06:22Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I wonder if mapping the cheese choice would yield any interesting results. Perhaps. To me, the main sandwiches that come to mind that demand Swiss are burgers with mushrooms, and, of course, a reuben or rachel. Patty melts in my neck of the woods have always been cheddar or American. It seems like some in this thread are following the rueben blueprint and going with Swiss. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/18 "2016-01-28T02:14:17Z")
Neither of the two patty melts I have ever eaten had onions on them. That tells you nothing really, I’d rather have a real hamburger so I’ve never looked further into this matter. However, this would be the kind of dish I would think of as being prepared according to narrowly defined guidelines, otherwise it’s just a hamburger sandwich, the real hamburger’s wimpy little brother. If the dressing is on the side, and there’s no other condiment or topping on the sandwich then grilled onions make perfect sense, and after considering this question were I ever again forced to eat a patty melt I’d be quite disappointed if it was served without grilled onions. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/19 "2016-01-28T02:14:22Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > And patty melts HAVE to be served with 1000 Island dressing. Mustard is an optional addition, but the dressing has to be on the plate when served. You’re just fucking with us now, right? Thousand Island dressing? You can’t be serious. Maybe this is a SoCal thing. I’ll bet you get avocado slices on the side, too, right? ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425/20 "2016-01-28T02:15:52Z")
If it helps, I’ve never had a patty melt on rye bread. Rye bread is kind of gross but that isn’t why. I’ve never seen it offered that way. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-a-patty-melt/744425.md?page=2)