# Definition of entry level professional work **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 20, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459 "2016-09-20T19:57:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459/1 "2016-09-20T19:57:57Z")
I lurk/participate in another forum that discusses job hunting and professional job issues, so I know that the New Normal is for entry level jobs to require 3 - 5 years experience. I’ve seen that in job ads myself the last time I was job hunting. I have a 30 year career so this doesn’t affect me at all. But it still bumps my pedantometer. In my humble opinion, entry level means you have education, perhaps a degree, but no experience in the field yet. It really irks me when jobs are advertised as entry level but claim to require years of experience. That’s NOT entry level. It’s mid-level. Anybody with me, or am I an anachronism? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459/2 "2016-09-20T20:01:24Z")
I think the key is that these are professional jobs, not blue-collar. Off the top of my head, emergency management is not someone off the street could do. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459/3 "2016-09-20T20:24:14Z")
Right, I’m talking about professional jobs. Software developer, accounting, marketing, etc. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459/4 "2016-09-20T20:43:31Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > so I know that the New Normal is for entry level jobs to require 3 - 5 years experience. Really, that is the old normal, too. At least I remember people complaining about it when I started my career a decade ago, and older people complaining about it a decade before then… Employers having inflated expectations of qualifications in job ads, and entry-level peeps ignoring those requirements and hoping to get a foot in the door anyway. The running gag was that job ads would require “5 to 10 years experience in \”. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459/5 "2016-09-20T20:49:33Z")
I think the issue is one of description. It’s one thing to say “What used to be called an “entry level job” is now advertised as requiring 3-5 years of experience”. That’s a thing that happens. What is annoying is when the job posting itself says “Seeking accounts payable clerk for entry-level position. Must have 3 years of experience with a major accounting firm”. If it’s actually described as “entry level”, it ought not require experience. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459/6 "2016-09-20T20:59:36Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > If it’s actually described as “entry level”, it ought not require experience. Yeah, to me “entry-level” means it’s suitable for a person’s first job. But if the company advertising the “entry-level” position is requiring prior experience, they must just mean it’s suitable for as a person’s first job _at that company_. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459/7 "2016-09-20T21:11:16Z")
If an organization has a very well-defined career track, I think the first rung of that track can accurately be called “entry level”, even if it requires some specific experience. Mid-level to me implies a pretty big jump from entry-level. Mid-level implies starting to take on some management and leadership. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459/8 "2016-09-20T21:24:31Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > The running gag was that job ads would require “5 to 10 years experience in \”. About 5 years ago, I saw an ad for a pharmacist job that required a PGY-2 and 5 years’ experience. Since very few people at that time had a PGY-2 (two years of a postgraduate residency, which is now becoming more common), this employer restricted their potential hiring pool to basically nobody. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459/9 "2016-09-20T21:37:07Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > The running gag was that job ads would require “5 to 10 years experience in \”. I remember ads for Java Programmers around 2000-2003 requiring 10 years of Java experience. It was released in 1995. Ridiculous job requirements contribute to the epidemic of inflated resumes. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definition-of-entry-level-professional-work/766459/10 "2016-09-20T21:55:45Z")
I’m starting to contemplate Life After Grad School myself, and I’m seeing damn few private sector jobs where a PhD is sufficient. Most “Scientist 1” jobs require 2-4 years experience. Which is code for “we’ll think about hiring you after you do a postdoc”. Even more annoying are the “Scientist 1” jobs that require 2-4 years of industry experience, IOW they don’t even want to hire the academic postdocs. Good thing big pharma has stepped up with their own postdoc programs… Yay.