# Definitions of Nice Guy **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 20, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655 "2012-11-20T23:45:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/21 "2012-11-21T13:39:56Z")
Doormat ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/22 "2012-11-21T13:56:43Z")
From the No More Mr. Nice Guy website: > [@](#): > > A Nice Guy’s primary goal is to make other people happy. > > Nice Guys are dependent on external validation and avoid conflict like the plague. > > Nice Guys are guided by the following three “covert contracts: > > – If I am a good guy, then everyone will love me and like me (and people I desire will desire me). > > – If I meet other people’s needs without them having to ask, then they will meet my needs without me having to ask. > > – If I do everything right, then I will have a smooth, problem-free life. > > These covert contracts operate at an unconscious level. They don’t work for a number of reasons, but Nice Guys are convinced they should. > > Because most Nice Guys believe they have kept their side of the contract, they often feel helpless and resentful when other people (and the world) don’t keep their side of the contract. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/23 "2012-11-21T14:33:22Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > A Nice Guy is someone who think not doing anything bad or wrong is the same as doing something right or well, and that their forbearance from sinning entitles them to something. Like not being sneered at, perhaps. What I see here is a lot of women attributing a whole lot of negative hypothetical motives and attitudes to men, apparently with no more evidence than “He was nice to me! Therefore, he’s a jerk and a slobbering, self entitled lust monster!” ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/24 "2012-11-21T14:53:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What I see here is a lot of women attributing a whole lot of negative hypothetical motives and attitudes to men, apparently with no more evidence than “He was nice to me! Therefore, he’s a jerk and a slobbering, self entitled lust monster!” Yeah, except that we’re distinguishing between guys who are nice and don’t act like women must automatically throw themselves at them as a result, versus the bitter Nice Guys who blame every single rejection/date failure on them being nice because all women totally want men who are abusive assholes. Because when you’re a woman hanging out with male friends and a guy starts in on that “I’m just too much of a Nice Guy” BS and you’re thinking, “no, passive-aggression with hints of misogyny is totally a turn-on!” there can be truth to it. There’s also a middle ground of Nice Guys who are bewildered at why their helpful acts aren’t causing the woman to fall in love; one website referred to them as “loft-builders.” (Try asking her out rather than being an unpaid handyman; that’s way more romantic.) Not saying there aren’t women who have fucked-up dating concepts, mind you, including the “fixer-upper” woman who sees a boyfriend with “faults” as a project, not a person, and the extreme version who believes that bad boys can be reformed with the love of a good woman. I also had a female friend in high school who took all rejections of her requests for dates as proof that they were obviously men threatened by a “strong woman.” Yeah, or maybe they just don’t feel attracted to you? No spark? With stronger denunciations as time went on, I amended my thoughts to “maybe you’re mistaking ‘bitch’ for ‘strong woman’.” That’s another of the female dating archetypes; “men are threatened by Strong Women” - you can be an actual strong woman who doesn’t feel compelled to trumpet it at all times, or you can be a mean person (see also: Keeping It Real, I’m Just Saying) who uses it as an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![thenonepercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@thenonepercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thenonepercent)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/25 "2012-11-21T16:27:11Z")
A “nice guy” is an emotionally immature passive-aggressive whiner who is too afraid of women to appeal to them, then complains about the success of confident men with the adage of “Chicks Dig Jerks.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/26 "2012-11-21T17:20:57Z")
> [@Modern\_Master](#): > > I’m confused by this term because I think it’s ambiguous. It is, indeed, ambiguous—this thread provides plenty of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![FlyByNight512](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@FlyByNight512](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyByNight512)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/27 "2012-11-21T17:34:45Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > From the No More Mr. Nice Guy website: That is an excellent definition, and by no means gender specific. It takes a lot of emotional maturity to get out of the “I am being good, therefore the world owes me xyz” trap. I also like this one, from [here](http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Nice_guy_syndrome): > [@](#): > > There are, broadly, three schools of thought about Nice Guys™: > > 1. That they are are victims of women’s irrationality or cruelty, in that women say that they want “nice guys” but in fact preferring to have relationships with “jerks” or “alpha [alpha males]” > 2. That they are using a failed seduction strategy and need to learn or be taught to be alphas or seducers, see Pick Up Artists > 3. That the Nice Guy strategy of “doing things for someone so that she will have sex with me, because women do or should reward niceness with sex” is a sexist construction Women definitely fall into the same ‘be a doormat until he/she sees how awesome I am’ trap pretty often, but they don’t often complain to the world about how unfair/cruel/obsessed with appearance men are as a result. An exception is [here](http://goodmenproject.com/noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz/uh-crunk-feminist-collective-we-need-to-have-a-chat/). ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/28 "2012-11-21T19:18:21Z")
If other people call you a nice guy, then it means you are a man who is nice and because you are nice, people like you. If you call **yourself** a nice guy, it generally means you are right old whining ninny who witters on incessantly about life not being fair because you can’t seem to get what you think you are owed. People tend not to like you. None of those people will call you a nice guy, because they don’t think you are nice at all. They think you are a gigantico pain in the arse. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/29 "2012-11-21T20:34:49Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > If other people call you a nice guy, then it means you are a man who is nice and because you are nice, people like you. > > If you call **yourself** a nice guy, it generally means you are right old whining ninny who witters on incessantly about life not being fair because you can’t seem to get what you think you are owed. What if you call yourself a nice buy because so many other people have called you a nice guy that you think they’re probably right? ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/30 "2012-11-21T21:25:19Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > What if you call yourself a nice buy because so many other people have called you a nice guy that you think they’re probably right? If I was to ask you how you describe yourself and you said you were a nice guy, I certainly would think that was more than a bit odd. When you ask men that question, they tend to say “I’m an engineer/a butcher/an artist/a parteeee animal” If I asked you how you described yourself and you said “My pals all say I’m a nice guy” that wouldn’t be a whole lot better, either. Because..well… who is pals with anyone they think is a nasty piece of work? Your pals are bound to like you, because if they didn’t like you, they’d not be your pals. It’s the same kind of thing as if I asked a woman how she described herself and she said “I’m beautiful” Yes, she might very well be drop dead gorgeous; but hearing her say it herself is more than a bit weird to me. I bet if you asked \ to describe herself, the first words out of her mouth would most certainly not be “I’m beautiful” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/31 "2012-11-21T21:27:05Z")
I think I’m eh pretty nice guy, I do girls laundry and doesn’t afraid of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/32 "2012-11-21T21:42:17Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > If I was to ask you how you describe yourself and you said you were a nice guy, I certainly would think that was more than a bit odd. When you ask men that question, they tend to say “I’m an engineer/a butcher/an artist/a parteeee animal” That’s very true; if I was giving a description of myself, those words would be way down the list if they were used at all. But the world isn’t all essay questions. Occasionally it’s multiple choice. If there was a poll asking “are you a nice guy”, I’d have to answer yes. So in that sense, I identify with it, but I dislike all the implicit baggage the term has picked up over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/33 "2012-11-21T22:06:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That’s very true; if I was giving a description of myself, those words would be way down the list if they were used at all. But the world isn’t all essay questions. Occasionally it’s multiple choice. If there was a poll asking “are you a nice guy”, I’d have to answer yes. So in that sense, I identify with it, but I **dislike all the implicit baggage the term has picked up over the years.** I don’t blame you one little bit for that. As a counterpoint; for us girls, the baggage-encumbered word of doom in multiple choice options is curvy. Online, it absolutely means you’re one big curve. You are a round woman. In my head it means you’ve got a defined waist right there between your boobs and your hips. You might be slim and fine boned or you might be hefty and weighty, but if you go in at the waist and out at the boobs and hips, you are curvy. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/34 "2012-11-21T22:11:17Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I’d also add that this seems to be an American thing at the moment; here in Britainland the phrase “nice guy” doesn’t seem to have these connotations IME. > > It’s a shame if the expression gets co-opted. I guess we can always fall back on “nice person”, which doesn’t carry any baggage, but this can’t be pluralized to refer to the set of men that are courteous, fair, respectful etc I don’t think the negative, ironic meaning of “Nice Guy” is common in everyday conversation in the US. I’m not sure I’ve ever encountered it except on the Internet. If you hear an American refer to someone as a nice guy, they almost certainly mean he is a guy who is nice. Here on the SDMB, the ironic use is usually indicated with scare quotes, capitalization, or a TM to make it clear that the poster _doesn’t_ mean a guy who is nice but rather a guy who makes a big deal about describing himself as nice but probably isn’t actually very nice at all. I like the way **Dublin11** explained the distinction: > [@Dublin11](#): > > If other people call you a nice guy, then it means you are a man who is nice and because you are nice, people like you. > > If you call **yourself** a nice guy, it generally means you are right old whining ninny who witters on incessantly about life not being fair because you can’t seem to get what you think you are owed. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/35 "2012-11-21T22:15:53Z")
When used to talk in a dating sense, its the male equivalent of “she has a great personality.” With women this means she probably isn’t much in the looks department. With men, this means that he is - passive aggressive is a good way to put it. Entitled because he is “nice.” Resentful because “nice” doesn’t get him a girlfriend. However, outside the dating arena, saying someone is “a really nice guy” is just a complement on his personality. Just like when you are talking about a woman outside of the dating arena, having a “great personality” doesn’t mean ‘she’s a dog.’ ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/36 "2012-11-22T00:52:28Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Yeah, except that we’re distinguishing between guys who are nice and don’t act like women must automatically throw themselves at them as a result, versus the bitter Nice Guys who blame every single rejection/date failure on them being nice because all women totally want men who are abusive assholes. Except that this thread is the first time in years\* I’ve seen women admit such a distinction even exists. It’s always “nice guys are all lecherous self entitled scum and any man who complains just proves he’s one of them”. It’s a nice little closed system. \*On the internet; in real life as **Lamia** said this definition of “nice guy” just doesn’t seem to exist > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Not saying there aren’t women who have fucked-up dating concepts, mind you, including the “fixer-upper” woman who sees a boyfriend with “faults” as a project, not a person, and the extreme version who believes that bad boys can be reformed with the love of a good woman. And that’s the kind of woman I think of when I hear a woman complain about “nice guys”; for example, my brother (who is a genuine nice guy) lost a girlfriend once (and good riddance) who complained that he wasn’t a “real man” because he didn’t hit her; unlike her new boyfriend. When I hear a woman complaining about “nice guys”, my natural inclination is that she’s the sort of woman who responds to kindness & consideration from a man with hostility or disdain; and tends to gravitate towards men who neglect or abuse them. And I’ve heard quite a few men express the same feelings; regardless of their intentions, I think that women who use this kind of rhetoric are just feeding the male perception that women want men who are jerks & thugs. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/37 "2012-11-22T01:17:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Except that this thread is the first time in years\* I’ve seen women admit such a distinction even exists. It’s always “nice guys are all lecherous self entitled scum and any man who complains just proves he’s one of them”. It’s a nice little closed system. I don’t think you’ve been reading very closely. Oh, and your brother should be glad he dodged a goddamned bullet rather than be sad that a woman who’s probably stuck in an abuse cycle from a previous boyfriend/her father doesn’t want him. Because that’s just fucking insane, and no, most women do not want to be beaten. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/38 "2012-11-22T01:59:36Z")
Nice guy can also be a way of saying something not so much negative, just not positive. In other words, if all people can say about you is that you are a nice guy, chances are what they really mean is that there’s nothing interesting about you that stands out. This applies to men and women, in and out of dating situations. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/39 "2012-11-22T02:03:18Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I think that women who use this kind of rhetoric are just feeding the male perception that women want men who are jerks & thugs. This male perception is not universal. Please, please speak for yourself and not men in general. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655/40 "2012-11-22T02:22:43Z")
Some Nice Guys started out just regular nice guys and then got all bitter because they couldn’t get women. But the reason they couldn’t get women may have just been that they were ugly or boring. Regular nice guys can get women just fine. (Not ME, but that’s a story for another day.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitions-of-nice-guy/641655.md?page=3)