# Definitive History in Film - WWII edition **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 20, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214 "2007-08-20T03:38:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/1 "2007-08-20T03:38:27Z")
Went to see [_The Last Legion_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Legion) today, and it made me think about how fast and loose some films play with history, even if some of the basic facts are there (which tells you how involved I was in the movie, to start pondering things like that). Anyway, I propose a Definitive History as portrayed in films, television, or whatever. The rules are only one portrayal of an historical event can count, and while historical accuracy is the most important, there should be at least some entertainment value in it. Movies based peripherally around an event but primarily focusing on fictionalized characters shouldn’t count (for example, I would include _Tora! Tora! Tora!_ over _Pearl Harbor_) So, if you were going to make the most definitive list of as-close-to-factual-events-as-possible movies (film or television) about World War II, what would they be? Throw them out here, and we’ll arrange them chronologically and debate which version of multiple events belongs. I don’t mean (or want) to sound American-centric, so please suggest films of any country, although if nobody’s really heard of it or it’s impossible to get a hold of, please refrain. Of the top of my head, the earliest WWI-related movie I can think of is _[The Battle](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/) [of Britain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain_%28film%29)._ If this works out, we can look at other eras. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/2 "2007-08-20T04:51:11Z")
[Der Untergang](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/) is not exactly a war film, but it as accurately as possible retells the final days in Hitler’s bunker and is generally an excellent movie. I can’t recall a WW2 movie that portrays actual battle that has impressed me too much with its realism - but I have pretty high standard as something of a hobbyist expert. Edit: Exception may be [Das Boot.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082096/) It’s been a long time since I’ve seen it though, so my memory of problems I had with the movie would’ve faded. I recall at the time feeling that it was pretty accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/3 "2007-08-20T05:02:44Z")
For complete lack of historical accuracy, [A Bridge Over The River Kwai](http://imdb.com/title/tt0050212/) has to be included. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/4 "2007-08-20T10:18:49Z")
I’m not an historian, but I offer for your consideration: **The Longest Day** If you do not consider it accurate, I would like to know of any major flaws. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/5 "2007-08-20T12:40:39Z")
Zoe, \*\*The Longest Day \*\* is a good choice. It portrays real characters in real events. Likewise, **A Bridge Too Far** is a flick that mostly shows historical events, even if it is on an anti-war spin. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/6 "2007-08-20T18:16:13Z")
Boy, I forgot about _Das Boot_…how historically accurate was it? _The Longest Day_. Definitely. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/7 "2007-08-20T18:53:34Z")
I’ll offer up: _Is Paris Burning?_ _The Dam Busters_ _Mr. Roberts_ ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/8 "2007-08-20T20:53:42Z")
On the Japanese civilian side, _Grave of the Fireflies_ is semi-autobiographical, although not technically about real people, and evidently quite accurate. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/9 "2007-08-20T21:14:02Z")
_Midway_ ( [Midway (1976) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074899/) ) is reasonably accurate for Hollywood. I don’t think the character played by Heston was historical, but the underlying military strategy and background are close. (They use USN _Essex_ class carrier’s for the Japanese, IIRC. The film footage is shown in reverse, to make it seem that the island structure is on the port side. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/10 "2007-08-20T21:15:01Z")
The author of _Das Boot_ served as a journalistic officer on several u-boat missions during the war. As I recall, the crewmen are fictional composites, but all of the events in the story actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![UncaStuart](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncastuart/32/404_2.png) [@UncaStuart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaStuart)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/11 "2007-08-20T21:22:45Z")
A few that come to mind that haven’t been mentioned are: _Pursuit of the Graf Spee_ _Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo_ and frothing Nazi admirals and a very hawt Dana Wynter aside, _Sink the Bismarck!_ ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/12 "2007-08-20T21:58:41Z")
You must include the 26 part TV series [The World At War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_War_(TV_Series)) followed by [Victory At Sea](http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/V/htmlV/victoryatse/victoryatse.htm) . ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/13 "2007-08-20T22:08:00Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] **The Longest Day** If you do not consider it accurate, I would like to know of any major flaws. [/QUOTE] Haven’t seen it in a while, but I think I remember the guys charging up the beach in Normandy like it was the Oakland Raiders against Pop Warner kids. Not exactly how things really went on D-Day. Not sure if my selection fits the rules, but I’d suggest **12 O’Clock High**. Fictional, yes. But I frequently hear WWII vets say that this film captured the vibe of the 8th Air Force’s experiences better than any other. I’ve personally met two B-17 pilots from that era who strongly agreed with that assertion. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/14 "2007-08-20T22:10:22Z")
Band of Brothers ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/15 "2007-08-20T22:15:38Z")
The Dam Busters has to be included on this list. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/16 "2007-08-20T22:19:03Z")
Psst! Post #7. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/17 "2007-08-20T22:21:30Z")
Okay, how did I miss that? I know I read your post, because I saw your nomination of Mr. Roberts, which knocked the other movie I was going to mention off the list. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/18 "2007-08-20T22:27:46Z")
[QUOTE=Hypno-Toad] Zoe, \*\*The Longest Day \*\* is a good choice. It portrays real characters in real events. Likewise, **A Bridge Too Far** is a flick that mostly shows historical events, even if it is on an anti-war spin. [/QUOTE] 😕 What “anti-war spin” are you talking about? No depiction of the boondoggle that was Market Garden could be accurate without showing the confusion, miscommunication, futility, and waste that were all part of that failed operation. > [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Haven’t seen it in a while, but I think I remember the guys charging up the beach in Normandy like it was the Oakland Raiders against Pop Warner kids. Not exactly how things really went on D-Day. I’d say that’s a function of filmmaking logistics and not a lack of effort in portraying things as accurately as possible. From Wiki: > [@](#): > > Many of the military consultants and advisors who helped with the film’s production were actual participants in the action on D-Day, and are portrayed in the film. The producers drew them from both sides. Among them are Günther Blumentritt (a former German general), James M. Gavin (an American general), Frederick Morgan (Deputy Chief of Staff at SHAEF), John Howard (who led the airborne assault on the Pegasus Bridge), The Earl of Lovat (who commanded the 1st Special Service Brigade), Philippe Kieffer (who led his men in the assault on Ouistreham), Pierre Koenig (who commanded the Free French Forces in the invasion), Max Pemsel (a German general), Werner Pluskat (the major who was the first German officer to see the invasion fleet), Josef “Pips” Priller (the hot-headed pilot) and Lucie Rommel (widow of Erwin Rommel). > > One thing that sets the film apart from most films set in the Second World War is that all characters speak in their own languages, with subtitles in English wherever the characters speak either French or German… Although the assault on Normandy may feel be portrayed in a more “realistically” sophisticated and violent way in _Saving Private Ryan_, I like _TLD_ because it conveys one incredibly important thing about the beach assault that _SPR_ ignores–that they were pinned down out there for **hours**. The producer Darryl Zanuck was a D-Day nut and spared on expense at the time to make things as accurate and wide-ranging as possible–depicting a myriad of operational vantage points (both Allied & Axis), including Brits, Canadians, the Resistance, etc. Some of it may be dated, and the star-watching can be a little distracting, but I think it’s still the most complete D-Day representation in a single feature. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/19 "2007-08-23T00:54:00Z")
The Battle of Britain seemed to be accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214/20 "2007-08-28T18:30:54Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] 😕 What “anti-war spin” are you talking about? No depiction of the boondoggle that was Market Garden could be accurate without showing the confusion, miscommunication, futility, and waste that were all part of that failed operation. [/QUOTE] Read “Anti-War” as “Anti-Millitary,” then. The movie suffers from being made in the late 60’s-early-70’s era with all of it’s attendant war protest mentality. Market garden was a boondoggle and it’s not hard to find mistakes throughout the operation. But the producers did the classic “War Sucks” stance of just myopically showing the death and destruction without addressing _why_ the fighting was happening. I mean, confusion, miscommunication, futility, and waste are part of EVERY military operation. The disaster that was Market Garden was not unique in that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definitive-history-in-film-wwii-edition/416214.md?page=2)