# Dehumanizing language should not be allowed **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 13, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435 "2023-06-13T16:14:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/136 "2023-06-14T05:46:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The mods are pretty good about chasing down hateful speech and bigotry when it rises to a level that justifies appropriate action. Bigotry is not against the rules in its own right, mind you. If it weren’t for scientific racism being on the list of tired topics, the rules would allow Great Debates on whether Black people are less intelligent, subhuman, etc. Likewise with women. Technically such topics are still allowed if you can persuade mods that you will cover new ground. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/137 "2023-06-14T07:00:59Z")
The American far right is really good at making words do a lot of work for them. Stochastic terrorism is a real phenomenon and we would do well to do our bit to fight it. I could do without _any_ terms with deliberate negative connotations to refer to _any_ group. I’d happily skip using deplorables, rethuglicans, ammosexuals, MAGAts and other cutesy stuff if that means invaders, illegals, groomers and other (real) dehumanizing/demonizing language got banned. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/138 "2023-06-14T11:21:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > This thread is moving quickly. I do want to make a couple of thoughts clear. > > **“Banned words” is a strawman.** > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Language is not the same as vocabulary. This is an excellent post–thank you! Despite your evident anger, @What_Exit (I was pretty pissed off yesterday, too), I actually appreciate your clarification that it was the “shameful” part of the post that you read as an attack. That helps me calibrate myself going forward–I genuinely didn’t realize that’s what you saw as the problem, and I thought that you were objecting to “racism informed by xenophobia,” which is a big part of what I found so frustrating. If it’s acceptable to use accurate language to call shit out, I’m a lot less worried about this ruling. **In this particular case** , I fear that the mods and admins just aren’t familiar enough with Great Replacement Theory and the lingo used by its adherents. Moderating speech around immigration without that awareness is going to lead to problems, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/139 "2023-06-14T12:15:50Z")
I think part of this is pretty simple. In a hostile post where hostile words are directed at a poster by name or “you”, mods are going to find that violates the ## **“Attack the Post and not the Poster rule”**. It is in the end the prime rule, especially in any forum I moderate but especially in GD and P&E where things are far more likely to get heated. Remember that and everything will be easier for posters and Moderators. Believe it or not, I don’t actually like giving out warnings, especially in threads already being watched as the OP is pinging troll alerts. In fact that was why I just went with a thread ban, I expected the thread to be closed or disappeared within a day. **And for the love of ice cream, of course I don’t mean in The Pit.** ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/140 "2023-06-14T12:50:12Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > **In this particular case** , I fear that the mods and admins just aren’t familiar enough with Great Replacement Theory and the lingo used by its adherents. Moderating speech around immigration without that awareness is going to lead to problems, IMO. Yes, that’s probably true. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/141 "2023-06-14T13:45:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Dehumanizing may not mean what you think. It is not some sci-fi concept. This is worth expanding on. The term doesn’t literally mean “making somebody not a human.” Most people, even most bigots, would - in a theoretical vacuum - agree with the notion of natural rights: that “being a human” is enough to qualify you for certain rights and dignities. Dehumanization is the process of eroding that implicit belief. It happens around the edges, and it’s done by degrees. The citizens of Weimar didn’t live and work and laugh in the shadow of Buchenwald because they thought the prisoners there were literal inhuman monsters. They’d just been given enough of a perceptual turning of the dials to believe that maybe “those people” didn’t rate quite the same intrinsic dignity as “our people.” That’s what it means to dehumanize an out group. It’s just about twisting dials to say, hey, you don’t have to spend quite so much empathy on **them**. They’re different. And it all flows out from there, eroding around the edges until your out group goes from different to disliked to vilified. It’s a process, and demanding that we only act at the **end** of the process is missing the point. Its the difference between preventative healthcare and cutting off a diabetic’s foot because he drank two gallons of soda a day for ten years. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/142 "2023-06-14T14:40:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > This is worth expanding on. The term doesn’t literally mean “making somebody not a human.” The way I like to explain it is that the root of “dehumanizing” isn’t really “human”, it’s “humane” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/143 "2023-06-14T14:50:14Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > It gets tricky when we’re talking about groups that are, in some certain sense, defined by the wrongness of what they are doing. There’s been a trend lately among antivaxers to claim that the term antivaxer is “dehumanizing” or “hate speech”. Evidently someone on Twitter agrees. I had a response blocked the other day with the explanation that it used problematic language. The post went through after I found an acceptable synonym for antivaxer. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/144 "2023-06-14T15:31:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Evidently someone on Twitter agrees. [Well, yeah.](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/06/robert-f-kennedy-jr-his-anti-vax-conspiracies-found-home-twitter) ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/145 "2023-06-14T15:37:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s not about mind-reading, it’s about reading posts in the same cultural context as represented by the vast majority of posters on this board, and, indeed, the same cultural context as the sane inhabitants of the world. Say _what_? There are sane human inhabitants of the world, and for that matter on this board, who are in widely varying cultural contexts from each other. You don’t get to claim one of them as the only sane one. The board can, of course, consider explanations from those multiple cultures as to how those different contexts appear to apply to a particular post. And the board can then, IMO, decide that if the language of the post is harmful in some of those contexts, then that language should not be used. That doesn’t mean that everyone in the other cultures isn’t sane; it means that they need to recognize and respect the existence of other frameworks. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Even othering of Jews is not inherently dehumanizing. When one says the _Jews_ take Sabbath on Saturday, with the connotation that he doesn’t do so and isn’t a Jew, that does not imply Jews are Jews first and humans second. That isn’t “othering” of Jews; not unless the rest of the context is a strong implication that only weird people who don’t need to be respected would do such a thing. Just noting an actually existing difference isn’t “othering”. When I point out to an agency offering services to farmers’ market vendors that is contemplating offering information entirely online that many such vendors are Old Order Mennonites who would then be unable to access information they may be required to have, I’m not “othering” my fellow vendors. I’m telling the agency that they need to respect those differences by also continuing to offer a print version – that the Mennonites need to be included, not excluded. > [@The\_Librarian](#): > > I’d happily skip using deplorables, rethuglicans, ammosexuals, MAGAts and other cutesy stuff if that means invaders, illegals, groomers and other (real) dehumanizing/demonizing language got banned. Seconded. In fact, I’m already skipping those terms, and have been all along. > [@The\_Librarian](#): > > I could do without _any_ terms with deliberate negative connotations to refer to _any_ group. I think that needs to be more carefully phrased. Groups that are openly espousing white supremacist positions, for instance, I think can be fairly described as “bigots” even though the word has a deliberate negative connotation. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/146 "2023-06-14T15:41:04Z")
**Modnote** : I’ve asked **Max\_S** to stay out of this thread for now on as he aided a Sock/Troll I’m pretty sure was the sock of _Jackass_ to hijack this thread back about the word “invaders”. So he shouldn’t be replying in this thread any further. I’m pretty sure all replies to the troll are deleted or in the cornfield. Note: Brand new users that jump into ATMB threads are always suspicious. They have since tried to come back twice. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/147 "2023-06-14T16:24:55Z")
> **Hid Off-topic post {What Exit?}** > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > I think that needs to be more carefully phrased. Groups that are openly espousing white supremacist positions, for instance, I think can be fairly described as “bigots” even though the word has a deliberate negative connotation. > > I have no problem with calling someone a white supremacist if they actually espouse white supremacist positions. But the left has gotten awfully loose with the term 'White Supremacist", applying it to all kinds of people who have never espoused such views. Also misogynist, etc. These are also dehumanizing words when used against large groups of people you don’t like. > > For example, our own Prime Minister said this about people who didn’t want to take the vaccine: > > > [@Justin Trudeau](#): > > > > “We all know people who are deciding whether or not they are willing to get vaccinated, and we will do our very best to try to convince them. However, there is still a part of the population (that) is fiercely against it. > > > > “They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist. It’s a very small group of people, but that doesn’t shy away from the fact that they take up some space. > > > > “This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people? Over 80% of the population of Quebec have done their duty by getting the shot. They are obviously not the issue in this situation.” > > Not just ‘othering’, but eliminationist. And wrong. He said Quebec is not the problem at 80% vaccinated. Except the people in the prairies he was suggesting not be ‘tolerated’ had significantly higher vax rates than Quebec. In other words, he was literally ‘othering’ people primarily because they came from a region he doesn’t like. > > I never heard a single complaint about that language from the left. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/148 "2023-06-14T16:38:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I never heard a single complaint about that language from the left. This is the first I’ve heard of it. And to the best of my knowledge, he didn’t say it on this board. If somebody on this board calls someone else a white supremacist who you say does not espouse such positions, I certainly think you should feel free to say so in the thread, and/or to report the post. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/149 "2023-06-14T16:41:24Z")
@Sam_Stone, as this forum is literally named #about-this-message-board, can you please keep your complaints and examples about this message board. I keep hoping this thread is done. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/150 "2023-06-14T16:43:30Z")
ETA: Removed due to mod note above. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/151 "2023-06-14T16:53:57Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I think can be fairly described as “bigots” even though the word has a deliberate negative connotation. Yes, I need to phrase that better. Malicious intent is hard to pin down. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/152 "2023-06-14T16:59:53Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I keep hoping this thread is done. I hope refining our language and calling out little dog whistles and other fun little attempts to other the scapegoats of the hour could be an ongoing thing. But let’s not do that in troll infested waters 😉 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/153 "2023-06-14T17:33:08Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I keep hoping this thread is done. Fwiw, I’m finding a lot of it to be thought-provoking, and I’m glad this thread was created. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/154 "2023-06-14T18:03:00Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > I hope refining our language and calling out little dog whistles and other fun little attempts to other the scapegoats of the hour could be an ongoing thing. I think it pretty much has to be an ongoing discussion; dying down at times, and then picking up again. @What_Exit?, if the implication is that the moderators would rather just not think about the subject, I’m not happy about that. If you’re just feeling overloaded right now, that’s a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435/155 "2023-06-14T18:10:43Z")
I, too, feel this is a good discussion to continue to have. My personal view is that language is fluid, with terms coming in and out of favor. No word list allows mods to adapt quickly to changing conditions in language. I’ve watched the terms, “illegals,” and “invaders,” become used more and more as snarl terms from certain political factions, and I won’t hesitate to moderate them as derogatory in conversations held in forums where I moderate if I believe that is what is happening. However, sometimes the usage is not intentionally fraught. Sometimes it is used in ignorance. I want the flexibility to make those calls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dehumanizing-language-should-not-be-allowed/985435.md?page=8)