# Deists/theists: why ONE god? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122 "2021-06-12T15:38:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/21 "2021-06-12T18:19:02Z")
When I was a wee tyke, in (Jewish) Sunday School, we were studying monotheism, and how the Jews were the first to believe in only one god. I was disturbed by the implication that believing in one god was an improvement over believing in many gods. So I asked the teacher about this, adding, “What if, someday, we discover that we were wrong, and there really are many gods?” I was under the mistaken impression that evidence was relevant. First step toward atheism. The teacher pretty much brushed me off, saying “Well, we believe there’s only one god,” implying that evidence is irrelevant. I remember how her response stuck in my craw for years. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/22 "2021-06-12T18:23:52Z")
If one were to apply Occam’s Razor, wouldn’t multiple improbable gods be simpler than one impossible god? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/23 "2021-06-12T18:34:54Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Isn’t this a bit like saying “I never understood why the change from polygamy to monogamy was considered such a great conceptual advance. But assuming it was, it is only a tiny further step to celibacy”? I prefer: “I never understood why ten STDs are really much worse than one, because having even one STD seriously compromises your activities. But if you’ve already got rid of nine gross diseases, it’s a small step to heal yourself of the last one; and that makes a huge difference in your outlook.” Aren’t analogies fun? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/24 "2021-06-12T18:42:32Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Doesn’t Hinduism allow for the existence of other Gods? I know it isn’t really polytheistic but I remember some key phrase about allowing for the existence of other Gods. Hinduism is explicitly polytheistic, and should not be thought of as a singular liturgical design split into ‘splinter fractions’ like the various Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist practices but rather a broad umbrella of beliefs and practices extending from a common cultural philosophy. It is entirely possible to be a ‘practicing’ Hindu without professing any particular supernatural beliefs, although there are certainly defined ecclesiastical practices within Hinduism. Most, if not all pre-Christian religions permitted the existence of gods other than the one being worshipped because every pre-Roman Empire society rolled its own deities by the necessity of identifying with a common ethnoliguistic tradition despite being routinely attacked or displaced by competing tribes or societies. These deities often provided a similar function as royal intermarriage in medieval societies by facilitating cultural and political bridging between cooperating societies through syncratization, hence why the same archetypes get reused over and over. It wasn’t until the Roman Christians and subsequent Roman Catholic movements came along and used their winging about being unduly persecuted to justify unmercifully attacking all believers of any other gods (including competing versions of the Christian god) in order to establish political unification of a continent-spanning empire. Frankly, multiple gods would be better than one, because even if your preferred god is a precious, mercurial brat with bad table manners and a taste for sacrificed virgins, they would at least exist in a pantheon of other gods with various alignments and alliances. The single god is a petulant child with no theory of mind for anyone else and commands his followers to destroy all imitators, ensuring that conflict that would nominally be limited to seasonal raiding for fun and profit becomes an endless conflict of dominance and destruction. I’d much rather have Vikings as neighbors and pay them a yearly tribute than be visited by the Crusaders looking to plunder and massacre in the holy name of some imagined offense. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/25 "2021-06-12T19:21:18Z")
Many of the “proofs” of the existence of god, like first cause, derive a single god, especially a necessary god as the greatest - there can only be one of these. Sure these proofs were done with the goal of proving a single god, but in the absence of evidence I’m not sure how you could prove the existence of many gods. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/26 "2021-06-12T19:28:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Isn’t that like saying that it is more sensible that Intel has one computer programmer than a variety of computer programmers that specialize in different areas? No, because we have observable evidence of computer programmers and we can see that they have finite abilities. But if we’re talking about divine beings with infinite abilities, then one can do just as much as a multitude. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/27 "2021-06-12T19:30:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If one were to apply Occam’s Razor, wouldn’t multiple improbable gods be simpler than one impossible god? Is that a serious question? Because Occam’s razor literally says the exact opposite of what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/28 "2021-06-12T19:31:21Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I never understood why the change from polytheism to monotheism was considered such a great conceptual advance. But assuming it was, it is only a tiny further step to atheism. > > Incidentally, the commandments don’t quite say there is only one god. Yahweh says only that thou shalt have no god before me. That seems to open it up to having many gods, but that one must come first. In fact the Bible is monolatrous, not monotheistic. Dagon appears in the story of the Ark prostrating in front of the Ark in His temple. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/29 "2021-06-12T19:38:58Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > In fact the Bible is monolatrous, not monotheistic. Dagon appears in the story of the Ark prostrating in front of the Ark in His temple. That’s debatable. The Bible acknowledges that other supernatural beings exist but are they gods? I don’t believe so. I believe that the Bible says there is only one actual god and he created everything, including supernatural beings that some people might mistakenly believe are gods. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/30 "2021-06-12T19:46:58Z")
I’m a Deist, but I don’t believe in a god who created the universe or one who interferes in human affairs. (I don’t believe in any sort of Abrahamic God). And the idea of there being one or many is not applicable and meaningliess. God doesn’t have a quantity. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/31 "2021-06-12T19:53:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is that a serious question? Because Occam’s razor literally says the exact opposite of what you’re saying. In the framing: > entities should not be multiplied without necessity …the meaning of “entity” cannot be taken as corresponding to “discrete _physical_ entity” or “being” or in this case “god” in such a literal way. It’s a much more general concept - a _logical_ or _conceptual_ entity - it could refer to a principle, an assumption, a generating algorithm. You can conjure up a lot of “entities” in the sense of beings with a small number of “entities” in the sense of assumptions or principles. I’m not sure how I feel about the application of Occam’s Razor here. I’m not strongly disagreeing with you, but I don’t think it’s as obvious as you claim. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/32 "2021-06-12T20:02:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But if we’re talking about divine beings with infinite abilities But are we? Gods do not necessarily have “infinite abilities”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/33 "2021-06-12T20:31:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But are we? Gods do not necessarily have “infinite abilities”. Shall we instead call it “the ability necessary to create the universe”? Regardless of what we call it, I feel it’s simpler to conclude that one being holds this ability rather than a multitude of beings who collectively hold the ability. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/34 "2021-06-12T20:35:09Z")
I will note that I’m not arguing with the premise of the thread here. That premise was that a being or beings created the universe. So I’m limiting my use of Occam’s razor to the choice between one being and multiple beings. If I was judging the issue in general, I’d add a third alternative and conclude that the simplest answer would be that no beings were involved in the creation of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/35 "2021-06-12T20:36:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I feel it’s simpler to conclude that one being holds this ability rather than a multitude of beings who collectively hold the ability. I think where I come out is that Occam’s Razor can only add any insight when we have a lot more knowledge about the principles in play, and where we are choosing between multiple hypotheses that all satisfy the constraints of all known principles. A straightforward principle about entities in the _known_ universe that I think carries far more weight than Occam here is that large civilizations are far more powerful than individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/36 "2021-06-12T21:20:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Shall we instead call it “the ability necessary to create the universe”? Nope-Most gods throughout history weren’t portrayed as having that much power. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/37 "2021-06-12T21:58:20Z")
The monotheistic gods I am aware of are all creator gods. And, yes, if you have a creator god, it makes sense for there to only be one. Even if you have other supernatural entities, they would have been created by the Creator. And if the Creator can create, they can destroy, and thus must be the most powerful, and thus the only one that can truly be said to be God Almighty. As for the idea there is no god—that’s beyond the scope of the question. If you ask theists and deists about their beliefs, you’re already taking as given the existence of some number of gods. I know my Christianity does not say that there is only one supernatural entity. And I believe even Judaism has angels. So I do not know of any monotheistic religion that posits that one god is enough for everything, even if that one god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/38 "2021-06-12T22:11:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nope-Most gods throughout history weren’t portrayed as having that much power. Very true. But I’m not fighting the premise of the thread. The OP specifically wrote about the creation of the universe. So I’m sticking with deities who are credited by their worshippers as having created the universe. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/39 "2021-06-12T22:17:57Z")
Most gods in mythology are credited with having created at least the world. Even the Christian account of creation didn’t have god create the universe out of nothing, he just molded what was already there into the world that we see today. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/40 "2021-06-12T22:19:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, yes, if you have a creator god, it makes sense for there to only be one. Even if you have other supernatural entities, they would have been created by the Creator. And if the Creator can create, they can destroy, and thus must be the most powerful, and thus the only one that can truly be said to be God Almighty. I don’t follow you. You say that “if the Creator can create, they can destroy” — _why?_ Is it impossible to imagine a creator who can’t destroy, or a destroyer who can’t create, or any one of a dozen other things? You just sort of _say_ that such an entity must thus be the most powerful; but _how_, exactly, are you ruling out various alternatives? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122.md?page=3)