# Deists/theists: why ONE god? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122 "2021-06-12T15:38:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/41 "2021-06-12T23:10:44Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Most gods in mythology are credited with having created at least the world. Nope. Greek, Norse, Hindu, Roman and many other mythologies are fill with goddesses and gods that are not credited with creatiing the world. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/42 "2021-06-12T23:16:17Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Even the Christian account of creation didn’t have god create the universe out of nothing, he just molded what was already there into the world that we see today. I don’t agree with this interpretation. > In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Creating “the heavens and the earth” would seem to encompass the creation of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/43 "2021-06-12T23:29:03Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > And, yes, if you have a creator god, it makes sense for there to only be one. Even if you have other supernatural entities, they would have been created by the Creator. And if the Creator can create, they can destroy, and thus must be the most powerful, and thus the only one that can truly be said to be God Almighty. > > I don’t follow you. You say that “if the Creator can create, they can destroy” — _why?_ Is it impossible to imagine a creator who can’t destroy, or a destroyer who can’t create, or any one of a dozen other things? You just sort of _say_ that such an entity must thus be the most powerful; but _how_, exactly, are you ruling out various alternatives? Because we’re not talking about some arbitrary creator, but the one who created everything that exists. Any restriction would have to also be something created by that Creator. To put it in concrete terms: if the Creator creates supernatural entities and the rules that govern how they function, what’s to keep that Creator from creating another entity that would annihilate that being? Remember, nothing else exists to stop them. Heck, they could make them annihilate each other. And, if you can annihilate all else that exists, then ultimately have power of them. You can make them do whatever you want, or they stop existing, and you make something else that will do what you want. If there is anything you can’t do, then it’s something no one else can do, either. Thus you have the Almighty God. The only hole I can think of would be a Creator who gave their creation the power to destroy the Creator. But such is not generally expected to exist. Of course, the Creator can choose to restrict themselves which is basically what the concept of “free will” is. Or, taken to its furthest form, it’s what Deists believe: God created everything, but then chose not to do anything else. Or, at least nothing else with the universe we currently inhabit—maybe they’re off creating something else. I hope that makes sense. It’s not easy to talk about this stuff. It’s one of those things that makes intuitive sense to me and I have to try and explain. I often feel I either leave things out or get too detailed. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/44 "2021-06-12T23:31:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@k9bfriender](#): > > > > Most gods in mythology are credited with having created at least the world. > > Nope. Greek, Norse, Hindu, Roman and many other mythologies are fill with goddesses and gods that are not credited with creatiing the world. But they aren’t treated as the same sort of entity as the monotheistic God, either. They aren’t all powerful or almighty. They aren’t all knowing. Heck, they generally aren’t even benevolent, let alone omni-benevolent. They are more analogous to the lesser supernatural beings of monotheistic faiths. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/45 "2021-06-12T23:44:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The only hole I can think of would be a Creator who gave their creation the power to destroy the Creator. But such is not generally expected to exist. Okay, so that’s _one_; it’s maybe not one you’d _expect_, but, fine, let’s start there. Can you also think of a creator for whom creating stuff sure does take a lot out of him — such that he’s maybe even killing himself in the process? Or maybe just greatly weakening himself? Is that sort of thing conceivable, or does something rule the possibility out? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/46 "2021-06-12T23:54:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But they aren’t treated as the same sort of entity as the monotheistic God Conveniently redefining “god” so that only monotheistic all-powerful entities qualify? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/47 "2021-06-13T05:09:50Z")
Pretty sure most theists who believe in a single god do so because that is the religion/culture they were born into. Someone who takes a very logical view of the universe, as many of you seem to be assuming, would quite likely not be a theist in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/48 "2021-06-13T11:10:04Z")
I would say God is One (Deut 6.4 x), which has a different context than there is one God. And perhaps the effect can be best understood via this verse: (Ro 8) 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. I use these concepts about God in the context the OP states, God is indivisible, God is Love, therefore Love is indivisible. This means every act of Love is (also) an act of an indivisible God. In my experience I have seen that so called ‘random acts of kindness’ are perhaps random from a person giving them, however it is possible and I have seen, that from the point of the receiver, these acts are not random but coordinated (by God). On my Appalachian Trail thru hike (hike of 2000+miles), I received so much of these random acts that patterns were clear, even though them came from unrelated people, the efforts extended to me were so obviously coordinated it was laughable and obvious that God was involved. Somehow getting exactly what I need, exactly when I needed it, and ofter far better then how I could have thought it. Over and over again. Many other thru hikers reported like happenings. So even if the love comes through other beings (people, angels, animals), it comes from a single source and in Love those acts are of God, as if they were God’s hands, voice, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/49 "2021-06-13T12:12:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I received so much of these random acts that patterns were clear, even though them came from unrelated people, the efforts extended to me were so obviously coordinated it was laughable and obvious that God was involved. Somehow getting exactly what I need, exactly when I needed it, and ofter far better then how I could have thought it. Over and over again. Many other thru hikers reported like happenings. This is called “ **pareidolia** ” [Pareidolia - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/50 "2021-06-13T12:20:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > ] > This is called “ **pareidolia** ” > [Pareidolia - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia) I believe **apophenia** would be more accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/51 "2021-06-13T12:21:28Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I believe **apophenia** would be more accurate Certainly more accurate-I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/52 "2021-06-13T15:09:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Conveniently redefining “god” so that only monotheistic all-powerful entities qualify? No, just staying on topic for this thread: > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The OP specifically wrote about the creation of the universe. So I’m sticking with deities who are credited by their worshippers as having created the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/53 "2021-06-13T15:47:02Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > It seems to me, if I felt the universe was too complicated to have formed without a creator, then it’s also too complex to have been formed by one creator. Surely a great degree in specialist creating skills would be needed, suggesting a creator force of millions of superhuman beings, does it not? I mean, even something as simple as a stone pyramid wasn’t built by one person. This is the OP. It sure as hell doesn’t seem to me that he is suggesting multiple gods with the same infinite abilties-To assume so doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/54 "2021-06-13T15:53:42Z")
The idea behind a pantheon is that they all have their different bailiwicks. One is in charge of the trees, another in charge of the winds, and one in charge of the fjords. Even with infinite power, delegation is still a useful skill to have. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/55 "2021-06-13T15:57:33Z")
Hey, @ [Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl), what did you have in mind for your OP-Multiple gods of infinite power, or multiple gods of less than infinite power? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/56 "2021-06-13T16:06:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The idea behind a pantheon is that they all have their different bailiwicks. One is in charge of the trees, another in charge of the winds, and one in charge of the fjords. > > Even with infinite power, delegation is still a useful skill to have. What religion has a slew of gods all equally and infinitely powerful? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/57 "2021-06-13T16:15:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is the OP. It sure as hell doesn’t seem to me that he is suggesting multiple gods with the same infinite abilties No, but he is suggesting gods who created the world, whether individually or in the aggregate. Gods who don’t participate in creating the world are irrelevant to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/58 "2021-06-13T16:31:22Z")
Christianity has a purportedly all powerful god, and yet he has a whole “host” of assistants. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/59 "2021-06-13T16:40:23Z")
Not a good example, in my opinion. Why would an all powerful god need assistants-About as useful as a spaceship, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122/60 "2021-06-13T17:06:16Z")
As I said, delegation. Just because you _can_ do everything doesn’t mean that you _want_ to do everything. If nothing else, I hear he likes to take it easy on the weekend, but someone’s gotta make sure the sun still comes up, that the tides come in and go out. He is also, due to his ability to do everything, somehow unable to directly communicate with us mortal beings without harming or killing us. He has to have a PR department in order to make his desires known. The official Christianity religion does include the angels, with their assigned duties. What does god need with ~~a starship~~ angels? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deists-theists-why-one-god/944122.md?page=4)