# DeLay gets one charge out of three dismissed, is this really a victory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508 "2005-12-07T15:35:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/1 "2005-12-07T15:35:35Z")
[Conspiracy charge dismissed](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/delay_12-05-05.html) and: > [@](#): > > “The court’s decision to dismiss Ronnie Earle’s numerous charges against Mr. DeLay underscores just how baseless and politically motivated the charges were,” DeLay spokesman Kevin Madden said. _Id._ But wait. Obviously, Mr. Madden’s spin is a bit strong. If anything the ruling underscores that two of the three charges were actually good. That’s not what has me thinkin’ though. DeLay wants this trial over fast, doesn’t he? But what if the prosecutor appeals? He can, after all: > [@](#): > > Art. 44.01. [812] [893] [871] Appeal by state > > (a) The state is entitled to appeal an order of a court in a criminal > case if the order: > > (1) dismisses an indictment, information, or complaint or any > portion of an indictment, information, or complaint; [http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CR/content/htm/cr.001.00.000044.00.htm#44.01.00](http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CR/content/htm/cr.001.00.000044.00.htm#44.01.00) And if he does, that delays DeLay’s rights under the Texas Speedy Trial Act, no? > [@](#): > > Sec. 4. **In computing the time by which the state must be ready for > trial, the following periods shall be excluded**: > > (1) a reasonable period of delay resulting from other proceedings > involving the defendant, including but not limited to proceedings > for the determination of competence to stand trial, hearing on > pretrial motions, **appeals** , and trials of other charges; (Emphasis added.) [http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CR/content/htm/cr.001.00.000032.00.htm#32a.02.00](http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/CR/content/htm/cr.001.00.000032.00.htm#32a.02.00) So in addition to the 180 days that the prosecution would ordinarily have to get ready for trial after the hearing and decision on the prosecutorial misconduct motion and any change of venue (or other pretrial) motions his team might file or any other pretrial, DeLay might have to wait for the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, and maybe even the Texas Supreme Court to decide an appeal? Isn’t he worse off because of this decision, at least if Earle appeals it? (I realize Earle might not appeal the decision, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/2 "2005-12-07T16:11:49Z")
Earle can’t appeal the decision. He has no legal basis to do so, as he charged DeLay with something that wasn’t a crime. And that by itself is enough to make me think that the rest of the charges will either be dropped or DeLay will be found not guilty if it actually goes to court. That is just plain, dumb, sloppy work on Earle’s part and one has to believe that the rest of it is the same story, just a different verse. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/3 "2005-12-07T16:19:05Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Earle can’t appeal the decision. He has no legal basis to do so, as he charged DeLay with something that wasn’t a crime. Earle might lose the appeal, but his legal basis for filing it was quoted in the OP. > [@](#): > > And that by itself is enough to make me think that the rest of the charges will either be dropped or DeLay will be found not guilty if it actually goes to court. That is just plain, dumb, sloppy work on Earle’s part and one has to believe that the rest of it is the same story, just a different verse. That’s exactly what DeLay’s team wants you to think. The charges will stick or not, but even the judge that DeLay’s team shopped for didn’t agree with your analysis of the remaining charges. DeLay might or might not be acquitted, but I suspect that’s a long way off, especially if his team keeps filing motions. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/4 "2005-12-07T16:25:23Z")
What this says to me is: - There is little to no evidence for the dismissed charge. - There is reasonable evidence for the other two charges. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/5 "2005-12-07T16:27:04Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Earle can’t appeal the decision. He has no legal basis to do so, as he charged DeLay with something that wasn’t a crime. [Earle as 15 days to appeal](http://dailydelay.blogspot.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/6 "2005-12-07T16:31:32Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > What this says to me is: > > - There is little to no evidence for the dismissed charge. The charge was dismissed on legal grounds. The judge agreed with DeLay’s lawyers that the conspiracy charge was not on the books at the time DeLay did his thing. > [@](#): > > - There is reasonable evidence for the other two charges. That’s what indictments are for. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/7 "2005-12-07T16:41:05Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Earle as 15 days to appeal](http://dailydelay.blogspot.com/) [Yup](http://www.courtstuff.com/trap/26.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/8 "2005-12-08T01:19:09Z")
Apparently DeLay’s team is thinking along these lines. DeLay has asked the judge to sever the counts so that he doesn’t have to wait for the result of the appeal if there is one: > [@](#): > > Because Priest stripped some language in the remaining conspiracy charge, that count could be tied up in the courts if prosecutors appeal. [Rep. DeLay asks judge to split charges](http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/07/delayindictment.ap/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/9 "2005-12-08T01:44:30Z")
It’s like shooting a guy in the street and being charge with murder and littering. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/10 "2005-12-08T14:07:20Z")
Huh. I’d always wondered what happened to Pat Priest after “The Munsters” was cancelled. The rest of this noise? Just bluster, trying to spin the court of public opinion, of course. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/11 "2005-12-09T03:18:41Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > [Rep. DeLay asks judge to split charges](http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/07/delayindictment.ap/index.html) [Setbacks for Tom DeLay](http://talkleft.com/new_archives/013354.html) > [@](#): > > In a letter to DeLay’s attorneys Wednesday, Senior Judge Pat Priest said he’ll be working on other cases and won’t be available until Dec. 27 to take up pending motions in DeLay’s case > … > I am fine with setting up the pending pretrial motions for the week between Christmas and New Year’s, and with planning a trial setting early next year, but I cannot require the state not to appeal my ruling," Priest wrote. Regarding charge splitting: > [@](#): > > “It is unlikely that I will grant a severance of counts or even of defendants in the absence of a compelling reason to do so,” Senior District Judge Pat Priest said in letter to lawyers in the case. IMHO, DeLay’s not coming back as majority leader, even if Hastert delays reconvening til early March. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/12 "2005-12-13T01:05:14Z")
[Prosecutors Appeal Dismissed DeLay Charge](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051212/ap_on_go_ot/delay) > [@](#): > > Prosecutors asked a judge Monday not to let Rep. Tom DeLay’s trial begin while they appeal the dismissal of one of the three campaign-finance charges against the former House majority leader. > If Judge Pat Priest agrees to a delay, it could be another blow to DeLay’s hopes of regaining his leadership post. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/13 "2005-12-17T23:49:09Z")
[DeLay Trial delayed](http://www.statesman.com/news/content/metro/stories/12/18delaytrial.html) > [@](#): > > Judge Pat Priest cancelled a Dec. 27 pre-trial hearing and refused to rule now whether DeLay, charged with conspiracy and money-laundering, could be tried in early January on the money-laundering charge alone. The decision could postpone DeLay’s trial by weeks, if not months, unless his lawyers can get higher courts to intervene. We may be kicking this around next summer, and into the fall election season. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/14 "2005-12-18T00:22:37Z")
Intriguingly, it appears that a better strategic move for DeLay’s lawyers would have been not to seek a pre-trial dismissal of charges, but to fight for a quick trial and get rid of the conspiracy count at trial. I don’t know Texas procedure, so I’m not sure how that could be done (maybe just a motion in limine, or maybe a directed verdict?), but the delay in getting to trial is solely DeLay’s fault. The judge is right; if the appellate court holds that the conspiracy charge is proper, then the same set of facts could be the subject of two or more trials. That’s hardly efficient, particularly when DeLay started down the procedural path that leads to where we are now. I wonder if DeGuerin, DeLay’s lawyer, advised DeLay that this was a potential outcome of the motion to dismiss. Sometimes, your own strategy can whip around to bite you in the butt. **Squink** , thanks for the updates. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/15 "2005-12-18T06:45:45Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [DeLay Trial delayed](http://www.statesman.com/news/content/metro/stories/12/18delaytrial.html) We may be kicking this around next summer, and into the fall election season. 🙂 So… next week House Speaker Dennis Hastert will postpone convening the 2006 session of the House of Representatives until next December, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/16 "2005-12-23T03:19:52Z")
[3rd Court to DeLay: No Speedy Trial for You](http://www.law.com/jsp/tx/PubArticleTX.jsp?id=1135245911909) [“Let my proclamation go out across the land … ha ha!”](http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2005-12-22_282497453056474/tv/simpsons/nelson/proclamation2.wav) (wav file) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/17 "2006-01-02T15:51:04Z")
[Court to consider faster DeLay trial: Quick, favorable outcome would boost chance to regain post](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/12/29/court_to_consider_faster_delay_trial/) > [@](#): > > Late Tuesday, the **all-Republican** State Court of Criminal Appeals in Austin gave Travis County prosecutor Ronnie Earle one week to respond in writing to DeLay’s motion for a quick resolution of the charges. . . (Emphasis added.) So shouldn’t the entire bench have recused themselves? 😉 He doesn’t seem to be complaining. Hmmmmm . . . ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/18 "2006-01-04T21:25:12Z")
[Prosecutors Decry ‘Unprecedented’ Tactics Of DeLay Defense Team](http://www.click2houston.com/news/5836846/detail.html) > [@](#): > > Earle argued that DeLay “refuses to accept the normal process of our justice system … attempting to leapfrog” over the usual court cycle “to serve his own political interests and ambitions.” > > But DeLay attorney Dick DeGuerin said the case also impacts voters in his Houston area congressional district and Republican members of Congress who elected DeLay as majority leader. And so Texas really should make a brand new set of procedures just for him? [Subpoenas hunt Abramoff, DeLay fundraising ties](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3563736.html) > [@](#): > > DeGuerin said there is no link between the case involving corporate contributions that Earle is prosecuting and the federal investigation of Abramoff. He’s right. That’s a totally separate problem for DeLay. 😃 [The real scandal of Tom DeLay](http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/09/real.delay/) [DeLay’s Lavish Island Getaway](http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=647725&page=1) [Nonprofit group linked to DeLay was funded mostly by clients of lobbyist](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002713324_delay31.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/19 "2006-01-04T22:35:47Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > But DeLay attorney Dick DeGuerin said the case also impacts voters in his Houston area congressional district and Republican members of Congress who elected DeLay as majority leader. As with all cases where an elected official is investigated/prosecuted for crime, the response should be to, in effect, tell the voters of his district: “Yes, we are arguably subverting your will by removing for office the representative you chose. But you remain free to replace him with an honest person of the same political views.” That’s what’s **important** about voting anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508/20 "2006-01-09T15:53:28Z")
> [@](#): > > However, DeLay’s appeal for an immediate trial — he has motions pending before the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals — is based on his desire to reclaim his leadership post before Congress convenes later this month. > > Abandoning his claim to the leadership job might undercut DeLay’s legal arguments for a trial this month. [http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/01/8delaylegal.html](http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/01/8delaylegal.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-gets-one-charge-out-of-three-dismissed-is-this-really-a-victory/334508.md?page=2)