# Delay in prosecution of Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 15, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708 "2021-09-15T17:47:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/225 "2021-10-20T16:53:26Z")
It’s also worth noting that Republicans in Congress have done/continue to do everything in their power to slow down efforts to prosecute Trump and his associates. Merrick Garland was not confirmed until March 19, 2021. He has effectively had control over the DOJ for 7 whole months. The Republicans are currently dragging out the process of confirming a new US Attorney for the DC office. You know, the office most likely to prosecute crimes committed by people who live and work in DC. They haven’t even offered an explanation for their opposition to the candidate, Matthew Graves, who was nominated back on July 26, 2021. They just don’t want him confirmed. I wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/226 "2021-10-20T17:37:55Z")
I’m sure they are discussing the idea of thinking about considering maybe doing something. I find it very frustrating. Never-Trumper Rick Wilson echoes my thought here. > **[Help Me Help You A plea to Democrats over Virginia and the 1/6 Comm](https://medium.com/@therickwilson/help-me-help-you-a-plea-to-democrats-over-virginia-and-the-1-6-comm-c267446cff85)** > > You can only help people who want be helped. This is a lesson of long standing, and it is rarely more true than in politics. The last two… I’m not optimistic, especially since the FBI director considered the “Stop the Steal” movement to be “scattered online chatter” and he told Congress he didn’t really see a connection between January 6th and Trump’s election loss. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/227 "2021-10-20T18:11:22Z")
I just wanted to note that, in this thread, I see an ad from “American Patriot Daily” that says, “Impeach Adam Schiff? Click here to vote now” ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/228 "2021-10-20T23:55:59Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Never-Trumper Rick Wilson echoes my thought here In that Wilson note, written two days ago, he laments about the J6 committee: > [@](#): > > Last week, they talked tough about holding a vote on Steve Bannon’s defiance of the Committee’s subpoena… sometime before Thanksgiving. “Swiftly consider” was the term they used in their press statement in reaction to me calling them out. > > “Swiftly” isn’t in their character. In the words of the political philosopher Inigo Montoya, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” The committee [voted today](https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/19/politics/steve-bannon-criminal-contempt-referral/index.html), the 20th of October, two days after Wilson wrote that, to hold Bannon in criminal contempt of Congress. A vote by the full House will be next week. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/229 "2021-10-21T12:28:51Z")
I’m not sure what the over/under is in Vegas for Republicans voting yes on contempt in the full House- I’m going to say 6 in total. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/230 "2021-10-21T14:10:53Z")
I’m going to go with two. There’s nothing in a “yes” vote for them, while a “no” vote at least gets them Trump-wing brownie points. Maybe if there was even a hint of a sensible-Republican wing there’d be some "yes"s, but even Cheney and Kinzinger are anti-voting rights, anti anything the democrats want, other than this commission. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/231 "2021-10-21T19:12:14Z")
If I had the choice between 1. Donald Trump gets arrested, convicted and jailed for crimes unrelated to his Presidency. No one in Trump’s White House, no one that assisted him in any of the crimes around his withholding aid to Ukraine, his Covid response or his attempted insurrection is ever held accountable. 2. There are robust investigations resulting in multiple charges and convictions, for Trump enablers like Mark Meadows, Roger Stone, Kayleigh and KellyAnne , Rudy, Steve Bannon, Jeff Clark, Mike Lindell and the entire sedition team. Trump himself manages to avoid any charges and remains a free man. I would choose #2 without any reservations. We need a return to normalcy but we will never get there unless we do the normal thing of arresting people that commit crimes. We need to go back to enforcing laws like the Hatch Act, but if we do it now without holding the offenders in the last administration accountable, that’s not a return to normal………it’s a stupid act of self-flagellation that plays right into the Republican Good Democrat Bad gaslighting campaign that is already “flooding the zone”, as is were. I really don’t get why the DOJ is being so restrained, something federal law enforcement is distinctly NOT known for. I mean, these are the people that brought a prostitution charge against Maria Butina based on her jokingly asking in an e-mail something to the effect of “Who do I have to fuck to get this done?”, but they can’t see a sedition charge in a written memo containing the actual secret plan to overthrow the government, a plan that people like Jeff Clark and Mark Meadows actually attempted to execute? Is it now the case that you can’t be charged with trying to overthrow the government unless you actually succeed? Am I the only one that sees the flaws in that logic? Every time the FBI and DOJ lets these people get away with something, they just double down and do it harder. Remember that moment of consternation after January 6th, when they actually acted like they might be held accountable for their actions? I remember they were so concerned that they actually conceded the Georgia run-off elections without a whimper of complaint. But they soon realized there would be no consequences and they were off to the races again. There is a time urgency here and they need to stop slow-walking this. If Biden’s approval ratings are low as we approach 2024, it will be like there are no laws, and people will start committing blatant political and election fraud and even acts of terrorism, thinking they will be pardoned once Trump gets re-elected. Or maybe it will be OK. Maybe if Merrick Garland and Chris Wray leave the runaway boulder that is threatening to destroy democracy alone for a little while longer, it’ll stop by itself. But it’s not the theory I’m betting on. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/232 "2021-10-21T19:48:44Z")
I think the problem is that they have to be very careful to have everything rock solid before the go through with this. As we saw with the “exoneration” by the Mueller report and the two impeachments a swing and a miss can be worse that never swinging at all. Even with a conviction there is still the danger that it will be viewed as purely political. They probably only get one shot at this, so before they go forward they need to have a case that will convince everyone except Trump’s [5th avenue](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-fifth-avenue-comment/) supporters that the prosecution and conviction is justified. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/233 "2021-10-21T20:09:20Z")
Along with your excellent points, @Buck_Godot, there’s also the fact that much of what they’re dealing with has never, ever been tested before. We’ve got a politicized SCOTUS that will use most any excuse to support the positions of their favored partisan oligarchs. How these prosecutions are crafted is so important. The approach has to make it obvious that SCOTUS disregarded stare decisis to go around established precedent when if they do. Whatever the outcome, it’s going to set precedent for the long, foreseeable future in how we deal with a rogue president supported by wealthy crooks. If rulings are adverse, pretty much kiss our democracy goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/234 "2021-10-21T21:17:19Z")
9 Republicans. Wow. I would have been surprised with three. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/235 "2021-10-21T21:23:09Z")
These nine: Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming (January 6 committee member) Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania Rep. Anthony Gonzalez of Ohio Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler of Washington Rep. John Katko of New York Rep. Adam Kinzinger of Illinois (January 6 committee member) Rep. Nancy Mace of South Carolina Rep. Peter Meijer of Michigan Rep. Fred Upton of Michigan > **[These are the 9 House Republicans who voted to hold Steve Bannon in contempt...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/politics/house-republicans-vote-yes-steve-bannon-contempt-of-congress/index.html)** > > Nine House Republicans broke ranks Thursday to join all Democrats in voting to hold Steve Bannon in contempt of Congress for defying a subpoena from the select committee investigating the January 6 attack on the US Capitol. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/236 "2021-10-21T21:36:28Z")
I’m _hoping_ this is showing cracks in the Trump Machine running the Republican Party. I’m not going to trip all over myself to call those individuals heroes or anything. But I hope that this shows that his orange-stained iron fist is slipping. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/237 "2021-10-21T22:28:59Z")
I think the Democratic party might ought to think about encouraging those 9 to run as independents without Democratic challengers. There’s a pro democratic (small c) side and an anti democratic side to American politics these days, and we need every pro democratic politician, if either party, we can get. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/238 "2021-10-21T22:34:51Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > These nine: Seven of them (all but Fitzpatrick and Mace) also voted to impeach Trump after the January 6th insurrection. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/239 "2021-10-23T18:15:04Z")
TIL: > [@Aspenglow](#): > > stare decisis 🙂 ETA - also TIL - an emoji is the equivalent to four words if you get the “you need five words miniumum”: error message. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/240 "2021-10-23T21:16:45Z")
I wonder if it depends on the “name” of the emoji? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/241 "2021-10-23T21:17:07Z")
Test 😀 (guess not - this one is just called “😀” but with one more word, the system counted 5 ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/242 "2021-10-23T21:18:10Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > ETA - also TIL - an emoji is the equivalent to four words if you get the “you need five words miniumum”: error message. That is handy knowledge! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/243 "2021-10-23T21:57:31Z")
Late to the thread, but one note for the OP: In general, the DOJ is supposed to be non-partisan and they would usually prefer to avoid any prosecution which could cast them as being partisans or working for the sake of partisans. Especially after Trump and Barr, this is very important. There’s also the issue that, if you look hard enough, you can probably find something to charge someone with and - when it comes to the President - you’ve got a pretty big target on your back. Having a strict no-prosecutions standard for the President makes life a lot easier, rather than having to deal with a million and one accusations that all have to be investigated and ruled to be real, concerning, and necessary to prosecute or just partisan trash, innuendo, and old grievances made large. If you have a crazy hard balancing act to contend with, just not getting into that game to begin with is the safest way to not lose it one way or the other. See, for example, Ken Starr. Through all of this, we really only have one person in the Federal government today who could credibly bring charges against Trump and that’s John Durham. From what we are aware, Durham’s special counsel mandate from Bill Barr was to investigate any criminality related to the Crossfire Hurricane or Mueller investigations. Assuming that to really be the full and complete description of his duties and limits, all of the cases of obstruction of justice given in the Mueller Report would have become actionable by Durham when Trump left office. Whatever the 12 (15?) other investigations referred by Mueller could also potentially fall under Durham’s mandate, if they haven’t already been prosecuted. All of them, however, may have sat dead from the end of Mueller’s investigation until January 20, 2021 if they required investigating or implicating the President himself. Mueller, for example, wasn’t investigating obstruction of justice and may not have sat his people down to give statements on what they witnessed from Trump’s people. That all would still need to be done and then double-checked against records and emails. And ultimately, we have no idea whether Durham is on this. Plausibly, Barr restricted his investigation to matters which made Trump look guilty and ignored everything else. Plausibly, Garland has decided to avoid the risks associated with trying to lock up a man who half the country loves and who believe that the nation is being run by a Deep State of corrupt and perverted individuals. But, as someone appointed by Trump’s own people and who has charged some individuals for harming Trump, Durham is probably the only game in town who could follow this through and have credibility, and he might have only been properly unleashed at the start of the year. Going after Trump is in his (public) mandate though and it just requires someone in power to point that out to him to make it a question that he would be obliged to ask Garland. If that hasn’t happened yet, then that could also be an explanation for the delay. Personally, I’d suggest writing your Representatives to ask them to ask Durham. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/244 "2021-10-24T00:30:51Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > TIL: Isn’t this place great for learning new things? Glad I could offer a new term for you to play with. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708.md?page=13)