# Delay: "Judges shouldn't use the Internet--that's outrageous!" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222 "2005-04-20T13:49:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/1 "2005-04-20T13:49:55Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/04/20/delay.judges.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/04/20/delay.judges.ap/index.html) > [@](#): > > We’ve got Justice Kennedy writing decisions based upon international law, not the Constitution of the United States? That’s just outrageous," DeLay told Fox News Radio on Tuesday. “And not only that, but he said in session that he does his own research on the Internet? That is just incredibly outrageous.” Ummm…what? Has DeLay completely lost it, or is there some valid reason why I should be outraged that Kennedy uses the Internet? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/2 "2005-04-20T13:55:17Z")
The _only_ thing I can think of is DeLay is saying Justice Kennedy (and I guess the rest of the judges) should have their assistants/staff doing the research for them. Maybe it’s “doing his own research” that DeLay is objecting to, not the “Internet” part. Harkening back to the “we don’t pay the president of the company to sweep the floors” kind of thing. I dunno. It’s a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/3 "2005-04-20T13:55:58Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Has DeLay completely lost it, or is there some valid reason why I should be outraged that Kennedy uses the Internet? He has a valid point: Supreme Court justices have a duty to interpret the constitution precisely as it was originally written, in cuneiform, millions of years ago by Jesus. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/4 "2005-04-20T13:58:11Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Delay: “Judges shouldn’t use the Internet–that’s outrageous!” Delay didn’t actually say that, did he? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/5 "2005-04-20T13:58:23Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > He has a valid point: Supreme Court justices have a duty to interpret the constitution precisely as it was originally written, in cuneiform, millions of years ago by Jesus. 😉 MILLIONS of years? What are you, some kind of godless evolutionist? It just occurred to me that I could parse the accusation differently: “Kennedy said that as for his own research, he does it on the Internet.” [that is, he doesn’t use the library]. If that’s what De Lay is accusing him of, at least it makes sense as a valid complaint–although I highly, highly doubt it’d be accurate. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/6 "2005-04-20T13:59:54Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Delay didn’t actually say that, did he? You caught me! I guess I should’ve included the full version of the quote in the OP, so that people could judge it for themselves. Good one, brute! So now that you’ve totally skewered the OP’s title, how about some help with what Delay actually said and how it’s not crazytalk? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/7 "2005-04-20T14:01:17Z")
Giving Mr. Delay the benefit of the doubt, that he does not deserve, I’m assuming he means that there are things that a Supreme Court Judge should not use to determine a case. He gave examples of two things, international law and “the internet”. By “the internet”, I’m assuming he means public opinion polls, blogs, and the wealth of misinformation on the 'net, as opposed to Westlaw or Lexis, or other legal research tools. I think if you look at the quote in those terms, you’d find he is actually trying to make a point, a point that some Dopers would agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/8 "2005-04-20T14:02:36Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Delay didn’t actually say that, did he? No, he said doing research on the internet was “incredibly” outrageous. Given that Kennedy is probably going to recognized legal databases and not, say, wikipedia, it _does_ certainly seem like a stupid statement. I respect plenty of conservatives, but DeLay ain’t one of them… ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/9 "2005-04-20T14:05:24Z")
He said it all right. [Here’s a link to the article I saw it in.](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05110/491090.stm) The actual quote in its entirety is this: > [@](#): > > “Absolutely. We’ve got Justice Kennedy writing decisions based upon international law, not the Constitution of the United States? That’s just outrageous,” DeLay told Fox News Radio. “And not only that, but he said in session that he does his own research on the Internet? That is just incredibly outrageous.” I’m not entirely sure what problem DeLay has with Kennedy doing his own research, though. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/10 "2005-04-20T14:05:43Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > You caught me! I guess I should’ve included the full version of the quote in the OP, so that people could judge it for themselves. Good one, brute! Your little made-up quote is pretty different in meaning from the actual quote. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/11 "2005-04-20T14:07:31Z")
Perhaps he just doesn’t like feeling dumber than someone else. Maybe DeLay could take some classes at the Senior Center or something. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/12 "2005-04-20T14:08:08Z")
Do tell, Brute. Gimme a way to read Delay’s quote that makes it both sane and accurate. I accept your total skewering of the title; do you have anything at all to say about the content of the post, or are you content to rest on your laurels? > [@Hamlet](#): > > Giving Mr. Delay the benefit of the doubt, that he does not deserve, I’m assuming he means that there are things that a Supreme Court Judge should not use to determine a case. He gave examples of two things, international law and “the internet”. By “the internet”, I’m assuming he means public opinion polls, blogs, and the wealth of misinformation on the 'net, as opposed to Westlaw or Lexis, or other legal research tools. Hmm–I guess that’s possible. I’ve done a bit of googling to try to come up with Kennedy’s original quote, with no luck so far; does anyone know what Kennedy actually said? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/13 "2005-04-20T14:08:32Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > By “the internet”, I’m assuming he means public opinion polls, blogs, and the wealth of misinformation on the 'net, as opposed to Westlaw or Lexis, or other legal research tools. Is there any evidence that Kennedy is using public opinion polls and blogs as opposed to valid legal research tools? Personally, I understand “the internet” to include both crap and valid sources, and I have no reason to believe that Kennedy can’t tell the difference between the two. So either DeLay is saying that it’s outrageous to use the internet to view valid legal research cites–which is a dumb thing to say–or he’s implying that Kennedy is taking opinion polls and blogs into account when he makes his legal opinions, which in a way is an even dumber thing to say… ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/14 "2005-04-20T14:09:47Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Your little made-up quote is pretty different in meaning from the actual quote. Explain how. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/15 "2005-04-20T14:13:55Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Hmm–I guess that’s possible. I’ve done a bit of googling to try to come up with Kennedy’s original quote, with no luck so far; does anyone know what Kennedy actually said? Wait. You opened a Pit thread excoriating DeLay’s criticism of Justice Kennedy _ **without knowing what he was criticizing** _? That’s just fucking pathetic. Typical and wholly unexpected, but pathetic. You are an intentional spreader of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/16 "2005-04-20T14:17:26Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Wait. You opened a Pit thread excoriating DeLay’s criticism of Justice Kennedy _ **without knowing what he was criticizing** _? > > That’s just fucking pathetic. Typical and wholly unexpected, but pathetic. You are an intentional spreader of ignorance. Umm…what? My OP was structured thus: -Flashy title to draw people in. (whether it’s accurate is an idiotic argument that I’m happy to concede to Brutus). -A link to the relevant story. -The part of the story that surprised me. - **An expression of my confusion over this part of the story** - **A question about whether he could have been making a valid point**. Your attempt to twist this around into something it’s not is what’s pathetic. If you think DeLay was making a valid point through this superficially asinine quotation, I invite you AGAIN to explain how. However, your _modus operandi_ is to deflect substantive debate with _ad hominems_ and irrelevancies, so I won’t hold my breath waiting for you actually to answer the question in the OP. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/17 "2005-04-20T14:19:48Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Do tell, Brute. Gimme a way to read Delay’s quote that makes it both sane and accurate. I accept your total skewering of the title… Well dork, you seem to have a reading comprehension problem, so let’s try this again: Delay is quoted as saying that he had a problem with a Justice using the internet to do research. Your OP title quotes Delay as saying judges shouldn’t use the internet, with no mention of ‘for research’, and in your OP, you quip the same. See the problem? Your quote does not equal what was actually said, nor is it an accurate paraphrase of what was actually said. Capiche? The problem here isn’t internet usage in and of itself. The problem is that a Justice of the United States Supreme Court should be held to the very highest standards, including the sources they base their opinions on. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/18 "2005-04-20T14:20:02Z")
Oh bullshit, **manhattan**. DeLay’s comments are pittable no matter what Kennedy said. Your blind partisanship is absurd. You’ve tied your wagon to one of the most insane horses in government and you’re too stupid to disengage rather than be led on the road to ruin. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/19 "2005-04-20T14:22:16Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Wait. You opened a Pit thread excoriating DeLay’s criticism of Justice Kennedy _ **without knowing what he was criticizing** _? We know what he was criticizing. He was criticizing Justice Kennedy for doing research on the internet. He didn’t qualify his statement as to which parts of the internet, just “the internet.” Presumably, Tom DeLay ment “the internet” when he said “the internet,” or else he probably would have used a more specific noun (like “blogs” or “chatrooms”) to describe what Justice Kennedy was using for his research. If someone said “Justice Kennedy does his research by reading” we’d all assume that he was reading legal briefs and such, rather then the Weekly World News. I see no reason to cut DeLay any slack here–if he doesn’t understand that “the internet” includes valid sources for legal research, then he’s ignorant; if he does then he’s an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222/20 "2005-04-20T14:23:37Z")
Manny, how does WHAT DeLay was criticizing Kennedy for, besides researching on the internet, matter? Dorky is pitting him for that specific statement, not for what he made the statement about, unless that WAS about Kennedy basing a decision on a Wikipedia article. And can we get a stickie in Great Debates and General Questions saying that Wikipedia is NOT a valid reference and anybody who uses it to support his position will be laughed at? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-judges-shouldnt-use-the-internet-thats-outrageous/300222.md?page=2)