# DeLayl links abortion and illegal immigration **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242 "2007-07-26T16:46:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/21 "2007-07-26T21:33:33Z")
[QUOTE=World Eater] Over a million abortions a year? That can’t be right, could it? [/QUOTE] Just about right. Some years more, some less. [Check out Figure 1 (about half-way down the page).](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm) > [@Voyager](#): > > DeLay is spouting off because he wrote a book blaming everyone else for his problems. It got trashed in the Times Book Review last Sunday - by a member of the American Enterprise Institute I was happy to see, not a liberal. Yeah, DeLay is an idiot. I read that review, too. It was pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/22 "2007-07-26T21:38:37Z")
So, is DeLay’s point that only lower income people have abortions? Are there any stats on that? I thought the usual complaint of people of his ilk was that the “welfare mothers” were out there having kids as fast as they could . ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/23 "2007-07-26T21:42:06Z")
Shit, that’s a lot. Learn a new thing and all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/24 "2007-07-26T21:44:02Z")
If anything, a larger population is going drive illegal immigration even higher. More people need more of all the the things illegal immigrants come here to do. Just having more US citizens isn’t going to make any of those citizens want to do the crappy jobs\* that illegal immigrants do. \*broad brush, I know, but I think most people here get the point. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/25 "2007-07-26T21:44:41Z")
I submit that his ilk don’t like women, period. (Frick! In response to **jk1245**.) ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/26 "2007-07-26T22:45:06Z")
[QUOTE=niblet\_head] I submit that his ilk don’t like women, period. [/QUOTE] Oh, they like women…when they’re good little submissive idiots who “know their place.” ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/27 "2007-07-27T00:17:32Z")
My personal theory is that the wealthier you are, the fewer kids you end up having. Ranting about a low birth rate, is complaining about the symptom without mentioning the cause. We’re having fewer kids because we’re better off. DeLay needs to propose ways to siphon away personal wealth above a certain level. Then we’ll automatically have more kids and they’ll be more willing to do lower paying labor. Do you think he could get behind that? ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/28 "2007-07-27T00:21:50Z")
[QUOTE=jk1245] So, is DeLay’s point that only lower income people have abortions? Are there any stats on that? [/QUOTE] I guess it’s too late to buy one for his mother. It is, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/29 "2007-07-27T01:18:28Z")
[QUOTE=11811] I guess it’s too late to buy one for his mother. It is, isn’t it? [/QUOTE] You are making the assumption that the DeLayster was of woman born. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/30 "2007-07-27T01:44:15Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] Remember the study a while back correlating the drop in the crime rate with the legalization of abortion? He actually wants more criminals, and fuller jails. [/QUOTE] I was about bring that up as well. Sure we’d need immigrants, to work as prison guards. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/31 "2007-07-27T02:07:12Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] I was about bring that up as well. Sure we’d need immigrants, to work as prison guards. [/QUOTE] Only fitting, since [they helped build the walls.](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6626823) > [@](#): > > \*\*A fence-building company in Southern California agrees to pay nearly $5 million in fines for hiring illegal immigrants. \*\*Two executives from the company may also serve jail time. **The Golden State Fence Company’s work includes some of the border fence between San Diego and Mexico.** _(bolding mine)_ ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/32 "2007-07-27T03:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=Zakalwe] Immigration may lower wages, but with the unemployment rate sitting at 4.7%, there aren’t that many Americans not working. In fact, according to the [Bureau of Labor Statistics](http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.toc.htm), in June, there were 7.295M unemployed. Of those, only 5.288M even **want** a job. There are, acoording to the [DHS](http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ILL_PE_2005.pdf) (warning PDF), at least 10.5M unodcumented immigrants (or illegal aliens, pick your term) in the United States. [Last year](http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/05/news/economy/jobs_immigrants/index.htm) (the only time I could find numbers for), the unemployment rate for all immigrants illegal and legal was 4.6%. Assuming the percentage is equally spread that means 483,000 illegals are jobless. That means that 10M have jobs. Whew! So if we send all of them home and give their jobs to the 5.288M unemployed US Citizens (through forced relocation and vocational programs), we’re still 4.712M job applicants short! Well, maybe the low pay means we should give each of the Americans **two** of the illegals jobs, that should cover the shortfall… [/QUOTE] Please ,that unemployment rate is a crock. I watched a German news show the other day and the economist was talking about 9 million unemployed. He said ,if we counted like America it would be 3 million. Los Angeles did a study lately and they found in a city that is doing well . that the rate was 50 % more than reported. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/33 "2007-07-27T04:26:58Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Maybe that’s true to a point, but those jobs are going to illegal immigrants because the pay is low - not because abortion has physically left us without people who can fill them. [/QUOTE] I think part of the point is that a lot of people who have abortions are those ill-equipped to raise children. Ineffective parents lead to degenerate children who grow up with reduced prospects, thus sufficiently supplying an underclass to take those jobs. Without that underclass, we have both a reduction in crime and a lot of jobs for migrant workers. Personally I don’t understand why people are so against Mexican migrant workers. I think they’re awesome. One particularly industrious family comes in and cleans up our house far better than I do, and in much less time. I admire them, they put together a good business, do very good work and are making a decent living at it. We use them when we throw big parties too. They can get an 8000 square foot loft done in an hour and a half with just a couple of people. I like migrant workers, I guess because I am lazy, decadent and bourgeois or whatever, but I like the idea of people coming here to send money back to their family in Mexico. I like to think it’s benefitting the Mexican economy so that possibly one day we can have a relationship with Mexico like we enjoy with Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2007, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/34 "2007-07-28T01:02:26Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Please ,that unemployment rate is a crock. I watched a German news show the other day and the economist was talking about 9 million unemployed. He said ,if we counted like America it would be 3 million. Los Angeles did a study lately and they found in a city that is doing well . that the rate was 50 % more than reported. [/QUOTE] I put a fair amount of work into that post. Offer a cite to back either of your assertions or shut the fuck up. Dickhead. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/35 "2007-07-28T01:04:17Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] You are making the assumption that the DeLayster was of woman born. [/QUOTE] So you’re saying he divided himself like an amoeba? I’ll buy that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/36 "2007-07-28T01:32:40Z")
[QUOTE=Zakalwe] Offer a cite to back either of your assertions or shut the fuck up. [/QUOTE] [Allow me:](http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_faq.htm#Ques5) > [@](#): > > \*\*Who is counted as unemployed? \*\* > > Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work. > > **Who is not in the labor force?** > > All members of the civilian noninstitutional population are eligible for inclusion in the labor force, and those 16 and over who have a job or are actively looking for one are so classified. All others–those who have no job and are not looking for one–are counted as “not in the labor force.” > [@](#): > > Discouraged workers – Persons not in the labor force who want and are available for a job and who have looked for work sometime in the past 12 months (or since the end of their last job if they held one within the past 12 months), but who are not currently looking because they believe there are no jobs available or there are none for which they would qualify. > > [http://www.bls.gov/bls/glossary.htm#D](http://www.bls.gov/bls/glossary.htm#D) Your unemployment statistics are rigged. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/37 "2007-07-28T02:54:14Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Your unemployment statistics are rigged. [/QUOTE] I very carefully used the “Persons who currently want a job” (5.288M) number not the “Unemployed” number (7,295M). [This cite](http://william-king.www.drexel.edu/top/Prin/txt/controv2/un9.html) seems to think that discouraged workers certainly aren’t willing to do the jobs that immigrants currently do since “the marginal effort cost of going on even one interview a week is greater than the benefit from the search”. So, why does not counting people who aren’t looking for work rig the statistics? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2007, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/38 "2007-07-28T03:20:12Z")
[QUOTE=Zakalwe] I very carefully used the “Persons who currently want a job” (5.288M) number not the “Unemployed” number (7,295M). [/QUOTE] I consider the 4 week cut off artificailly narrow. > [@](#): > > [This cite](http://william-king.www.drexel.edu/top/Prin/txt/controv2/un9.html) seems to think that discouraged workers certainly aren’t willing to do the jobs that immigrants currently do since “the marginal effort cost of going on even one interview a week is greater than the benefit from the search”. > > So, why does not counting people who aren’t looking for work rig the statistics? I do not consider someone out of the job force just because they haven’t look for work for a mere 4 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![I\_m\_Ron\_Burgundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9fc29f/32.png) [@I\_m\_Ron\_Burgundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_m_Ron_Burgundy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2007, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/39 "2007-07-28T03:35:18Z")
The ‘they do jobs we don’t want to do’ is a tired and sad argument, and stretching a counter-argument as far as he did is beyond ridiculous. What’s worse is that this is not the first time I’ve heard it. Plus, legal US citizens do loads of jobs they don’t want to do. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242/40 "2007-07-28T13:37:10Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] I consider the 4 week cut off artificailly narrow. [/quote] Artificially as opposed to what? The “natural” cutoff of 36 days, 15 hours and 27 minutes? It’s a statistical measure. As long as it is applied consistently who cares what the cutoff is? > [@](#): > > I do not consider someone out of the job force just because they haven’t look for work for a mere 4 weeks. But do you consider them to be looking for a job? Look, the numbers are as of a given point in time. It’s not like they brand “DISCOURAGED WORKER” on your forehead and keep you there for life. If you haven’t looked for work since May, then you are now considered out of the labor force. When you start looking again, you’ll move back in to the “Persons who currently want a job” category. Why is that misleading? Should we count retirees too? But you and gonzo say the number is underreported. Fine. Even if we use **gonzomax** ’s unsupported assertion that it’s 50% off: Unemployed = 10.9425M (7.295M \* 150%) Looking for work = 7.932M (5.288M \* 150%) Undocumented Immigrants = 10.5M Unemployment Rate = 6.9% (4.6% \* 150%) Employed UIs = 9.7755M (10.5M - .7245M (10.5M \* 6.9%)) Shortfall of documented workers needed to do all currently available jobs (assuming perfect 100% employment including forced relocation and forced vocation): **1.8435 million** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delayl-links-abortion-and-illegal-immigration/413242.md?page=3)