# Deleted clients' data after non-payment .... what have i gotten myself into? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 19, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329 "2012-04-19T22:45:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/21 "2012-04-20T16:56:46Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > Here’s a recent ruling that declared that code is not property for the purposes of criminal prosecution. I would think the data you deleted would not be considered property, either. > > [heise online – IT news, guides and background information | heise online](http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Developer-wins-appeal-code-is-not-physical-property-1520173.html) It doesn’t matter. Accessing someone else’s computer system in excess of your intended authorization may, as I said, constitute a felony violation of the C.F.A.A. For example, in _Executive Security Management Inc. v. Dahl_, No. CV 09-9273 CAS (RCx) (C.D. Cal. Nov. 15, 2011), two employees of a company were fired and they deleted the data on their company-provided laptops. The ex-employer said that the loss of this data caused them to lose a contract. The court said that this might constitute a violation of the anti-hacking statute. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/22 "2012-04-20T17:03:45Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Wait it out. \*\*If they ask you what happened, just tell them that you don’t know anything and that you’re still waiting on payment \*\*(dropping your request for payment would be suspicious.) > > If they come at you for this, THEN get a lawyer. Otherwise just shut up about it and hope it goes away on its own. With regard to the bolded part of your statement, having any conversation with them without having retained a lawyer would be incredibly foolish. Telling him that he doesn’t know anything about it would be a lie and would almost certainly come back to bite him in the ass later, compounding the initial error. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/23 "2012-04-20T17:20:59Z")
If you’re lucky, nothing will come of this. Otherwise you’ve acted badly. But it doesn’t seem like your client has suffered any damages as a result of this, and potential violation of law is based on your authorization to access the client’s computer, which is a pretty fuzzy area because you don’t have a written agreement about this, and too piddly-shit for the authorities to care. I understand in certain fields there are long standing practices and it may be common to work without a written contract. But you are taking a risk when you do that. Even with contracts I’ve found it useful to maintain contact with a third party ‘collection agency’. In over 30 years I’ve only been stiffed for a single $2000 payment. And I should have pursued that one just to keep the guy from thinking he got over on me. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/24 "2012-04-20T23:33:40Z")
You have the admin password? Go back in and change the admin password. If they can’t get in, they can’t figure out that the data’s missing… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/25 "2012-04-21T00:30:09Z")
Just more proof the law is evil and that moral people can’t follow it. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/26 "2012-04-21T00:45:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Just more proof the law is evil and that moral people can’t follow it. Really? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/27 "2012-04-21T00:53:40Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Just more proof the law is evil and that moral people can’t follow it. Really? Just in case more incredulity was needed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/28 "2012-04-21T00:58:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Just more proof the law is evil and that moral people can’t follow it. It takes very little moral compass to know you shouldn’t (1) deliberately sabotage work you’ve done for someone else or (2) access someone else’s computer system to do something you know they would not want you doing. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/29 "2012-04-21T01:36:54Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] You have the admin password? Go back in and change the admin password. If they can’t get in, they can’t figure out that the data’s missing… 😃 [/QUOTE] I’m sure that was meant as a joke, but an admin in San Francisco did some jail time for doing that a couple years ago. They didn’t even delete data or shut anything down - they just locked out all other admins, but that was enough to land them in the slammer. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/30 "2012-04-21T03:01:08Z")
I think there is a very good chance the OP has committed a criminal act. And the OP is being MORE than foolish by not taking all the advice offered to STFU about it. Whether or not you get a lawyer, don’t have any further communications with the guy or his company until you’ve talked to a lawyer, not to admit it, not to deny it, not to demand your money. In answer to your question, > [@](#): > > What would you have done if you were me? the answer is, Almost anything BUT what you have done. Most likely I would have eaten the loss. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/31 "2012-04-21T03:51:04Z")
It’s likely that they do daily backups and they can redo whatever you undid. Can you visit their site/pages/whatever as an anonymous internet person to see if your work is still there? ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/32 "2012-07-02T06:31:36Z")
I just wanted to give an update for those of you who assumed I was hauled off to jail. Earlier this week I received a check in the mail, along with a letter (not from the guy who hired me, but from someone else at the company) saying “sorry for the delay…”. It was the exact amount owed to me back in March, and the check has now cleared. I WOULD make a fuss about this, but I figure rather than monetary interest, I instead received a couple lessons here, so I’ll call it even. I never heard a peep from anyone about the “damage” I did. The website actually did get fixed (with all of the additions I made) about a week after I started this thread, but I didn’t want to throw any fuel on the fire by trying to raise any issues over that. I also decided that I am done doing freelance work - I have a full time job, so I really don’t NEED the extra $, and I don’t want to take any chances with getting another bum deal, so if I get any other offers, I’m just going to give them a NO. And if this guy ever contacts me for another job, I am going to laugh in his face. And of course the big lesson here - before you react, sleep on it, and then go with the action that’s not going to put YOU in the hot seat instead of them. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/33 "2012-07-02T09:39:39Z")
Just one other thing to throw out there - I don’t know what your full time job is, but a lot of companies have clauses in the employment contract that specfically forbit taking on freelance work on the side, almost all for very good reasons. How happy do you think the OP’s employer would have been if one of its employees was in the news for being arrested on a hacking charge? ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/34 "2012-07-02T11:15:30Z")
Does your admin password still work? Just asking… ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/35 "2012-07-02T12:11:12Z")
> [@manila](#): > > Does your admin password still work? > > Just asking… I bet he doesn’t know… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/36 "2012-07-02T13:30:11Z")
I’m glad things worked out. Freelancing can offer random stress, it’s true. But since you have a full-time job, I’m wondering why you got so worked up over the whole thing in the first place. Have you ever wondered whether you might look into some anger or impulse control treatment? ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/37 "2012-07-02T16:49:07Z")
It was mainly over the fact that I was on vacation that week, and I gave up an entire day of it to do this data entry, and then not only got nothing in return for it (well technically, I got my vacation pay from my main job), but was getting jerked around by someone who used to be a reliable employer. I’m normally a very calm person, seriously! The clause in my contract is that if I have secondary employment, it needs to be declared with a form. Just about everyone I work with has some kind of side gig that they do, and I seriously doubt that most of them declare that they sell candles on ebay or rent a house in upstate NY… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329/38 "2012-07-02T18:06:00Z")
NM [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deleted-clients-data-after-non-payment-what-have-i-gotten-myself-into/619329.md?page=1)