# Deliberate (and deliberately offensive) racism should be moderatable. It is Being a Jerk **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 2, 2022, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145 "2022-04-02T11:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/21 "2022-04-02T17:55:12Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > If White people can’t call Black people incompetent at their job BECAUSE of their race, then racism has lost all meaning. If you’re saying somebody can’t do a job because of their race, that’s racism. It’s the literal definition of racism. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/22 "2022-04-02T17:55:18Z")
Cartooniverse was being a jerk, and a racist jerk at that. The whole I’m not racist, but we all look out for our own defense doesn’t wash. It is, in fact, more racism. Presumably, the producer was hired on his abilities and experience. Oh, but he’s black erases all of that. It’s a whole lot of projection. Don’t get distracted by free speech. It is just a distraction. We’ve never had free speech here, and it would have been a bad thing if we had. Do we have an black mods here? Can we challenge their mod-notes with But you’re black! arguments? Or would that be racist? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/23 "2022-04-02T17:56:34Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Then people will move to other message boards or venues that allow for “frank discussions” on why certain races can’t be trusted to do their jobs. I’m sure there are message boards that support racism. This is not one of them. The people who leave here because they can’t post racism will not be missed. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/24 "2022-04-02T17:58:18Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > The reason that the person who assaulted another person wasn’t escorted from the room is because the Producer of record is also an Africa-American. The optics in the control room truck, in the building, in the industry, would have been atrocious. I can’t believe you don’t see how racist you’re being here. If Ben Affleck had slapped John Mullaney and the producer had been white, would you have said,“Well look at a picture of the producer, no wonder he wasn’t kicked out?” No, of course not. Black bouncers kick unruly black patrons out of clubs all the time. No bad optics there at all. And the idea that you can’t possibly be racist because you have half Asian kids is risible. There are actual Asians who are racist against black people. Your post should have gotten a mod note at minimum and preferably a warning. ETA; Also, your post wasn’t the OP. It was around the later 300’s ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/25 "2022-04-02T18:39:21Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Has racism ever been given a pass here? Yes, it has quite a long history of doing so. Racialism and scientific racism discussions happened all the time. **Chen019** is the first name to spring to mind but there were others that posted almost exclusively on those subjects for years. > [@New Rules for Politics and Elections – January 2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rules-for-politics-and-elections-january-2020/845727/1): > > The definition of context is entirely at the discretion of the moderation staff. Not sure why you posted rules for P&E, but why couldn’t moderation discretion have used the don’t be a jerk rule? Everyone always talks about it being the #1 rule, but it is rarely used. This was a Cafe thread, not the Pit. He was a jerk and could have been modded for it with zero blowback. > [@RitterSport](#): > > “Do you think that the producer being Black affected how he handled this confrontation between two Black men?”, I don’t think it would have raised as many eyebrows. I actually was a bit surprised to find out today that apparently the whole production staff was black. Not sure how or why that came around but i don’t see why that couldn’t have been asked and answered. **Cartooniverse** ’s phrasing was way off, like it was a conspiracy of some kind. > [@RitterSport](#): > > In any case, they asked Smith to leave and he refused, so you’re even wrong on the facts. That depends where you read now. Some say he wasn’t asked to leave. Some say he refused to leave. Some say he was not asked and did not refuse to leave at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/26 "2022-04-02T18:43:39Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > We’ve got 2 different discussions going here: > > -Can we have conversations about whether or how race is a factor in public events (or whatever) > -Can posters use snide innuendo and racist dogwhistles instead of actual arguments > > I would say yes to the first and no to the second. The second should be modded, harshly. I second this approach (and obviously the conclusion stated immediately afterward as well–I mean, even outright racists will generally agree to that, the key is they’ll just insist they’re “not a racist, but…”). ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/27 "2022-04-02T18:52:37Z")
Thirding @Sunny_Daze’s post. Good distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/28 "2022-04-02T18:58:55Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > > [@Cartooniverse](#): > > > > I wasn’t trying to be oblique. > > Yes you were. There is nothing more oblique than the way you phrased that post. I agree with @Roderick_Femm on that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/29 "2022-04-02T20:16:38Z")
You misread that. Say there is a person who is incompetent. That person happens to be black, which has nothing whatsoever to do with their competence. Someone calls the person incompetent, because they are. Another rails at that and claims that you can’t call that person incompetent because to do so would be racist… because that person just happens to be black. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > If Ben Affleck had slapped John Mullaney and the producer had been white, would you have said,“Well look at a picture of the producer, no wonder he wasn’t kicked out?” No, of course not. Sure, happens all the time “The good old boys club”. “He only got away with that as he was white and rich”. And it does happen. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/30 "2022-04-02T20:18:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You misread that. Say there is a person who is incompetent. That person happens to be black, which has nothing whatsoever to do with their competence. Someone calls the person incompetent, because they are. Another rails at that and claims that you can’t call that person incompetent because to do so would be racist… because that person just happens to be black. Truth be told, I thought @Chingon was being sarcastic. Perhaps he can clarify? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/31 "2022-04-02T20:20:24Z")
That is certainly possible, I admit. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/32 "2022-04-02T20:33:06Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > we presumably all believe racism is wrong. You presume too much. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/33 "2022-04-02T20:38:44Z")
Yeah, I mentally appended a big /s to the end of their post too. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/34 "2022-04-02T20:42:04Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Has racism ever been given a pass here? Does this board have a problem with nurturing of racism? > The answer to my rhetorical questions of course a resounding no. People who post racist stuff get hammered. This is so not-even-wrongI don’t even know where to begin, but let’s start with the (thankfully now restricted) GD scientific racism threads and go from there… > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But what if the rules about race-based discussions have got to the point where there is a chilling effect, so posters feel they can’t comment expressly on race-based issues? They haven’t, because I see White people flapping their lips about Black issues all the damn time. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/35 "2022-04-02T20:49:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You misread that. Say there is a person who is incompetent. That person happens to be black, which has nothing whatsoever to do with their competence. Someone calls the person incompetent, because they are. Another rails at that and claims that you can’t call that person incompetent because to do so would be racist… because that person just happens to be black. Maybe I misread his post. It could be interpreted two ways: saying there are people who are incompetent and black or saying there are people who are incompetent because they are black. I’m leaning towards the latter interpretation. Look at the context of the two posts I was responding to. > [@Chingon](#): > > If White people can’t call Black people incompetent at their job BECAUSE of their race, then racism has lost all meaning. > [@Chingon](#): > > Then people will move to other message boards or venues that allow for “frank discussions” on why certain races can’t be trusted to do their jobs. My experience has been that whenever somebody complains about how white people can’t tell the truth about black people, the “truth” they’re seeking to share is racism. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/36 "2022-04-02T21:02:01Z")
JFC, it was sarcasm. LOL I capitalized “because” . ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/37 "2022-04-02T21:09:42Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > **LHD** says “Free speech has nothing to do with a private messageboard”. Which is an interesting way to put it, because while free speech does not _have_ to be a principle of a private messageboard, it _can_ be, so **LHD** ’s statement is in a sense quite, quite wrong. The question isn’t whether this private messageboard _has_ to grant free speech, it’s whether _we want it to_ on the basis it’s a good general principle. > > Personally one of the reasons I became a habitue of this place was because it had an interesting free thought vibe, in which you could say what you liked but if it was stupid or counterfactual or horrid you would get your ass kicked from here to Mars by the community. I think it was a good system. It was a terrible system. Go back 15 years and read some of the jocular jeering shittiness that was posted. Board culture permitted some pretty gross stuff. It’s improved by reining folks in, and we’ve spent tens of thousands of posts discussing that. I’m well pleased with our progress and hope we make more progress. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/38 "2022-04-02T21:12:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It was a terrible system. Go back 15 years and read some of the jocular jeering shittiness that was posted. Board culture permitted some pretty gross stuff. It’s improved by reining folks in, and we’ve spent tens of thousands of posts discussing that. I’m well pleased with our progress and hope we make more progress. Completely agree. Much of that has been reigned in and it’s been a great benefit to the community. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/39 "2022-04-02T21:19:42Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Completely agree. Thirded. The “highly effective” scorn wasn’t effective enough to keep some posters from bringing up the same bullshit over and over again, wasn’t effective enough to keep certain cancerous attitudes from festering, wasn’t effective enough to keep valued and valuable posters from leaving in dismay and disgust. It may feel good to pile scorn on people with retrograde ideas. It feels better to not have to put up with them in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/40 "2022-04-02T21:28:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Go back 15 years and read some of the jocular jeering shittiness that was posted. Board culture permitted some pretty gross stuff. It is still permitted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145.md?page=3)