# Deliberate (and deliberately offensive) racism should be moderatable. It is Being a Jerk **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 2, 2022, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145 "2022-04-02T11:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/101 "2022-04-20T16:32:10Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > So we’re clear - you’re saying that a community that privileges allowing racist speech over the mental well-being of the most vulnerable and already-traumatized minority of its own citizens is _not_ racist? > > Yes, I do. I don’t see how that’s logically defensible. I mean, if you’re defining “being racist” as “consciously endorsing belief in the innately inferior status of the marginalized group”, then sure, probably very few people on a board like this would qualify. (Although probably more than I think, or would like to think.) But “being racist” can also mean “being unconsciously influenced by systemic racism to normalize racist tendencies and attitudes”, and I think your hypothetical community falls squarely into such a category. If we compare it with other bigotry such as sexism or homophobia, we can ask ourselves how we’d feel about a community that officially treated assertions about the inferiority of women or gay people as neutral speech not deserving of any formal condemnation or rejection. I think it would be fairly uncontroversial to describe such a community as influenced by systemic sexism and/or homophobia. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/102 "2022-04-20T16:34:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But communities like states are different from private communities. 'Round here, I’m all in favor of restricting racist speech. I agree completely. I mean, I wouldn’t advocate that racists be deprived of citizenship, for instance, when I talk about “exile” I mean strictly from this message board. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/103 "2022-04-20T16:38:59Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > there was no good basis for a warning in this case “Being a Jerk” is no longer in the rulebook? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/104 "2022-04-20T16:39:12Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Why on earth only in Café Society? I have reservations about banning ‘deliberate racism’ in P&E and GD. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > But they keep inviting him to dinner, despite knowing that he’s going to make racist comments? > > Why should I, or anybody else who doesn’t want that crap, keep showing up at those dinners? You can ignore him, or you could go to a dinner table where racism would be modded as a hijack or impolite. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/105 "2022-04-20T16:39:31Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The United States for example has not banned Nazi ideology. The fact that Nazi ideology is “allowed” does not, on its own, make the community of the United States antisemetic. You’re glossing over the fact that the United States government engages in a lot of official condemnation of antisemitism, including [Congressional task forces for combating antisemitism](https://www.rosen.senate.gov/about-jacky/senate-bipartisan-task-force-for-combating-antisemitism), official condemnations of antisemitic attacks by leaders speaking on behalf of the government, and so forth. The US government, despite the inevitable presence and influence of systemic societal antisemitism, is doing a hell of a lot more to suppress antisemitism than merely sitting on its ass and hoping some of its citizens will step up in their capacity as private individuals to “heckle” the offenders. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/106 "2022-04-20T16:40:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > You’re glossing over the fact that the United States government engages in a lot of official condemnation of antisemitism The mods here also condemn racism, and probably Pit racists. They’ve also held discussions on how to combat misogyny. Wouldn’t that complete the analogy? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/107 "2022-04-20T16:42:58Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > if you’re defining “being racist” as Prejudice or discrimination. For a community, IMO a racist community is one that allows racial discrimination or one that is prejudiced at large. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/108 "2022-04-20T16:43:07Z")
A racist comes to your private dinner table, and your solution is for _the offended party_ to leave the table? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/109 "2022-04-20T16:43:48Z")
No, my solution is > [@Max\_S](#): > > If I run the Café and you’re spewing racist drivel, you get asked to STFU once. After that you get the boot. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/110 "2022-04-20T16:44:30Z")
No, not unless they’re taking official action on behalf of the SDMB to denounce and deplatform the things they’re personally condemning. The US government doesn’t let people use its employee listservs and so forth to disseminate antisemitic propaganda, for example. They don’t merely say “well we personally don’t like it but we won’t interfere with your freedom of expression to regulate your use of our official communication channels”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/111 "2022-04-20T16:44:31Z")
You have posted contradictory “solutions” then. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/112 "2022-04-20T16:45:18Z")
Did I? Where? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/113 "2022-04-20T16:46:26Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > For a community, IMO a racist community is one that allows racial discrimination or one that is prejudiced at large. A convenient way to normalize and “invisibilize” the existence and influence of persistent systemic racism that many people would rather not acknowledge directly, ISTM. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/114 "2022-04-20T16:46:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The US government doesn’t let people use its employee listservs and so forth to disseminate antisemitic propaganda, for example. They don’t merely say “well we personally don’t like it but we won’t interfere with your freedom of expression to regulate your use of our official communication channels”. I have every confidence that the mods would punish an individual who perpetrates an unsolicited racist PM campaign. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/115 "2022-04-20T16:47:49Z")
A PM campaign is not the only way—in fact, not anywhere near the primary way—that participants in the SDMB use the SDMB’s official communication channels. Those channels include, and are overwhelmingly dominated by, the board forums themselves. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/116 "2022-04-20T16:48:14Z")
Not PMS. The open thread posts here are the listserv posts in that analogy. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/117 "2022-04-20T16:50:30Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > you could go to a dinner table where racism would be modded as a hijack or impolite. In other words, you’re telling me if I don’t like it I should leave these message boards and go look for some other ones? They’re actually kind of thin on the ground; at least, ones that I think are any good. I’d rather make these boards the table at which racism would be modded as being a jerk. And I see no reason whatsoever to limit that to the Café. I don’t spend a lot of time there anyway. [ETA: but whether I personally spend time in an area has nothing to do with the issue.] > [@Max\_S](#): > > I have every confidence that the mods would punish an individual who perpetrates an unsolicited racist PM campaign. Or to PM’s, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/118 "2022-04-20T16:50:33Z")
If she’s talking about U.S. govt employees using a government server, that doesn’t fit because the analogy would be a rule against mods making racist posts on the board. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/119 "2022-04-20T16:52:15Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > In other words, you’re telling me if I don’t like it I should leave these message boards and go look for some other ones? I was thinking of a dinner table as a thread. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/120 "2022-04-20T16:52:37Z")
🙄 It’s an _ **analogy** _. Govt = mods Govt employees = posters [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145.md?page=7)