# Deliberate (and deliberately offensive) racism should be moderatable. It is Being a Jerk **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 2, 2022, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145 "2022-04-02T11:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/121 "2022-04-20T16:54:01Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I was thinking of a dinner table as a thread. Doesn’t really work that way. If any thread I open might turn out to have racist crap in it, that infects the whole board. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/122 "2022-04-20T17:04:15Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If any thread I open might turn out to have racist crap in it, that infects the whole board. Yep. It definitely does. Compare how this board used to be infested with leering misogynistic posts, just dropped into any old thread, most any forum. It took a concerted campaign to get that to change. And now it’s a lot better, I think (although any female poster is free to correct me!). And then consider that there are a damn sight more female posters here than Black or Brown ones. And it _still_ took ages. Then consider how much _more_ _ **invisible** _ the racist crap is to most of the people on this board. Hell, a lot of posters here don’t even agree racist microagressions and dogwhistles _exist_. That’s why I said I don’t hold out hope of real change. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/123 "2022-04-20T18:18:04Z")
A message board doesn’t “accidentally” have statistically zero Black posters. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/124 "2022-04-20T18:39:46Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If any thread I open might turn out to have racist crap in it, that infects the whole board. If you don’t want to risk the mere _possibility_ of encountering racism, despite choosing a table where polite manners and common courtesy is required, why are you eating dinner with unvetted strangers? 😕 ~Max ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/125 "2022-04-20T18:48:01Z")
Unvetted is one thing. Unmoderated is another. If I go out to a restaurant, I do so under the presumption that other customers aren’t going to randomly spit into my food. And if somebody does, I expect the restaurant to do something to stop it. Not just to stand there and laugh at the spitter. And you seem to think that deliberate racism is a normal component of “polite manners and common courtesy”. It’s not, and it shouldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/126 "2022-04-20T18:48:53Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > FTR: I would be perfectly happy with a rule change, but there was no good basis for a warning in this case and I’ve been _smacked_\* down plenty of times for going to far. Without a rule change I don’t expect to see posts like the one that started this thread modded. The Staff Note was about as far as was reasonable to go. If the rules need changing, change them. 1. Blatantly racist posts will be warned. 2. Posters attempting to slip a blatantly racist post past the mods will be banned. If that hasn’t already been done, it should have been. So let’s just say it has. It’s 2022 for god’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/127 "2022-04-20T18:50:06Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Unmoderated is another. For the umpteenth time, if it was my decision, I _would_ have moderated the post. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/128 "2022-04-20T18:54:27Z")
If I understand you correctly, only because it was in Café Society. You explicitly said > [@Max\_S](#): > > I have reservations about banning ‘deliberate racism’ in P&E and GD. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/129 "2022-04-20T19:09:09Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > If you don’t want to risk the mere _possibility_ of encountering racism, despite choosing a table where polite manners and common courtesy is required I would _like_ to choose a table where “polite manners and common courtesy” are required. Now, to my mind, “polite manners and common courtesy” kind of _preclude_ racist speech. As in - racist speech is _inherently_ rude, impolite and discourteous. So, if there’s racist speech, it’s axiomatically _not_ a table where “polite manners and common courtesy” can exist. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/130 "2022-04-20T19:10:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I would _like_ to choose a table where “polite manners and common courtesy” are required. You can. You can leave this board at any time. We all have that choice. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/131 "2022-04-20T19:11:22Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > A message board doesn’t “accidentally” have statistically zero Black posters. To be fair, some of the ones we _did_ have were open transphobes, so … think of it as reverse intersectionism. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/132 "2022-04-20T19:14:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You can. You can leave this board at any time. Well, duh 🙄 I must therefore accept things just as they are, right? Can’t agitate for change, no sir. And not be so damn _uppity_, clearly. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/133 "2022-04-20T19:24:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Now, to my mind, “polite manners and common courtesy” kind of _preclude_ racist speech. As in - racist speech is _inherently_ rude, impolite and discourteous. For once, we agree on something. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/134 "2022-04-20T19:26:57Z")
So, since I _can’t_ choose such a table… ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/135 "2022-04-20T19:27:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > I would _like_ to choose a table where “polite manners and common courtesy” are required. > > You can. You can leave this board at any time. We all have that choice. From the registration agreement: > We have one guiding principle: Don’t be a jerk. > > [. . .] > > You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. > > [. . .] > > If we tell you to refrain from behavior that we regard as uncivil, or that in our view detracts from productive discussion, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges. > > [. . .] > > Do not post hate speech directed against any race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, or gender in any forum. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/136 "2022-04-20T19:28:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So, since I _can’t_ choose such a table… To sit anyways or to go - that’s a decision you have to make. I’m all for moderating deliberate racism as against polite manners and common courtesy, which is literally in the rules of Café Society. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/137 "2022-04-20T19:30:44Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > To sit anyways or to go - that’s a decision you have to make Put up with racism, or be chased away. Tell me again how the community is not racist, again? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/138 "2022-04-20T19:33:49Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > FTR: I would be perfectly happy with a rule change, but there was no good basis for a warning in this case and I’ve been _smacked_\* down plenty of times for going to far. Without a rule change I don’t expect to see posts like the one that started this thread modded. The Staff Note was about as far as was reasonable to go. My argument is that, as I said, there **is** more you could do, under the Don’t Be a Jerk rule. The whole idea of the SDMB moderation rules is that they don’t have to cover every single circumstance. In the banner (on the post in question) you say you looked for any way to deal with it, but couldn’t find one. The original purpose of my post was to say “here is the rule you can use to moderate this.” (I had actually hoped I’d get a thanks and then it would be moderated. Not that I expected it.) You may not have intended it, but your Staff Note effectively tells the poster that they can continue posting in that manner. You didn’t indicate in any way that this was something to discuss. It read more like the mods together had decided there was nothing they could do. It appeared to be an official pronouncement that, since it wasn’t hate speech, it couldn’t be moderated—that you couldn’t even give a Mod Note to knock it off. As I argue, you can instead moderate it under the Don’t be a Jerk Rule. @Max_S even helpfully quoted the specific part of the rules that would allow it. You have a lot of leeway there. I’m all for a specific rule. (I in fact have argued that we should be a specific rule about misogyny.) Those help clarify things, and make it no longer so much of a judgement call. But I disagree heavily that there was nothing you could do under the rules as is. And I very much think the Staff Note itself actually made things worse, not better, for the reasons I stated above. I actually got a PM from someone else who told me they were as shocked as I was by it. And they are not someone who usually PMs me. And I do apologize for my replies being long—it’s just that I’ve found that longer posts tend to heavily reduce misunderstandings. It seems better to overexplain than underexplain. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/139 "2022-04-20T19:38:12Z")
And so? What is your point? I am not in favor of allowing hate speech or even deliberate or offensive racism. The post mentioned by the Op should have gotten a Note- it wasn’t _blatantly_ racist, but it _was_ deliberately coy and certainly racism could easily be inferred and seemed to me to be implied. (it is hard to tell what people are thinking or any inner motives when posting). But the option to leave _is_ there. If someone is that disgusted with a message board or facebook or whatever- you can just leave. It isn’t the same as telling someone they can just get on a plane and leave their country. Message boards, etc are not really important in the great scheme of life. If posting here is raising your blood pressure and hurting your mental or physical health- then yes, you should leave… or at least take a break. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145/140 "2022-04-20T19:40:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Message boards, etc are not really important in the great scheme of life. If posting here is raising your blood pressure and hurting your mental or physical health- then yes, you should leave… or at least take a break. Says the guy with 30 days of read time and 222,000 read posts. This is thorny’s board as much as it is yours or mine or anybody else’s. Suggesting that they leave is a shit move. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deliberate-and-deliberately-offensive-racism-should-be-moderatable-it-is-being-a-jerk/962145.md?page=8)