# Delta Dawn/Ruby Red Dress type of songs **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2015, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496 "2015-06-14T10:58:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BaldDudePeekskill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@BaldDudePeekskill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaldDudePeekskill)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/61 "2015-06-19T00:32:24Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > And then you have [Ode to Billie Joe](https://youtu.be/CZt5Q-u4crc) by **Bobbie Gentry** , sung from the perspective of the damaged woman. Before I search the archives, has anyone ever brought up the possibility that Billie Joe was gay? I know that’s been tossed about a bit. I never thought of it as being about the narrator… ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/62 "2015-06-19T03:33:28Z")
> [@BaldDudePeekskill](#): > > Before I search the archives, has anyone ever brought up the possibility that Billie Joe was gay? I know that’s been tossed about a bit. I never thought of it as being about the narrator… That’s the premise of the 1976 movie [Ode to Billy Joe](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074995/), which was pretty shocking back then. I saw it at a drive-in movie with a friend of mine (we are both male) and we didn’t talk for a while afterward. I wonder why the name’s spelling got changed. It’s the same Bobbie Gentry, and the tagline is _What the song didn’t tell you, the movie will_. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/63 "2015-06-19T03:37:09Z")
How about [Eleanor Rigby](http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/beatles/eleanor+rigby_10026674.html) - she certainly was damaged and delusional, but the Beatles didn’t really say why. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/64 "2015-06-19T04:06:31Z")
> [@BaldDudePeekskill](#): > > Before I search the archives, has anyone ever brought up the possibility that Billie Joe was gay? I know that’s been tossed about a bit. I never thought of it as being about the narrator… Bobbie Gentry claims she didn’t really give much thought to why Billie Joe killed himself. The song was about the [callous indifference of the narrator’s family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ode_to_Billie_Joe): > [@](#): > > When Herman Raucher met Gentry in preparation for writing a novel and screenplay based on the song, she confessed that she had no idea why Billie Joe killed himself. Gentry has, however, commented on the song, saying that its real theme was indifference: > > “Those questions are of secondary importance in my mind. The story of Billie Joe has two more interesting underlying themes. First, the illustration of a group of people’s reactions to the life and death of Billie Joe, and its subsequent effect on their lives, is made. Second, the obvious gap between the girl and her mother is shown when both women experience a common loss (first Billie Joe, and later, Papa), and yet Mama and the girl are unable to recognize their mutual loss or share their grief." ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/65 "2015-06-19T04:16:33Z")
Sally Simpson? Fire and rain Lou Reeds Berlin LP, everything on it Velvets All tomorrows parties, new age, ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/66 "2015-06-19T06:08:56Z")
See Emily Play - Pink Floyd Bag Lady - Todd Rundgren Cross eyed mary - Jethro Tull ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/67 "2015-06-19T09:06:08Z")
Maybe I should narrow the search parameters here: 70s Fem Glurge = songs by female performers, recorded between 1970-1980, about tragic, unidealized women who are: –past their peak of attractiveness –subject to mental illness or depression –engaged in desperate behavior, possibly including the occult –surrounded by well-meaning people they cannot confide in –not completely in control of their own sexuality ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/68 "2015-06-19T09:51:02Z")
I know I’m going slightly outside the time parameters but I think the _ne plus ultra_ of damaged woman songs has to be “You Don’t Have to Say You Love Me” by Dusty Springfield. It’s about a woman who is willing to debase herself utterly for the tiniest scrap of attention from her man. The only other song I can think of quite this utterly pathetic is the male equivalent, “Ne Me Quitte Pas” by Jacques Brel (and to get the full effect you need to hear Brel’s version, not Nina Simone’s). ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/69 "2015-06-19T13:13:48Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The only other song I can think of quite this utterly pathetic is the male equivalent, “Ne Me Quitte Pas” by Jacques Brel (and to get the full effect you need to hear Brel’s version, not Nina Simone’s). I can think of a worse male equivalent: “Willing to Wait” by Sebadoh. But that’s for a discussion of pathetic beta-male songs of the 80s and 90s. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/70 "2015-06-19T13:18:43Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Maybe I should narrow the search parameters here: 70s Fem Glurge = songs by female performers, recorded between 1970-1980, about tragic, unidealized women who are: > –past their peak of attractiveness > –subject to mental illness or depression > –engaged in desperate behavior, possibly including the occult > –surrounded by well-meaning people they cannot confide in > –not completely in control of their own sexuality That’s cool, but you’d have a thread with about 6 posts. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/71 "2015-06-19T17:05:56Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Maybe I should narrow the search parameters here: 70s Fem Glurge = songs by female performers, recorded between 1970-1980, about tragic, unidealized women who are: > –past their peak of attractiveness > –subject to mental illness or depression > –engaged in desperate behavior, possibly including the occult > –surrounded by well-meaning people they cannot confide in > –not completely in control of their own sexuality “He hit me and it felt like a kiss” The Crystals- 4 out of 5? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/72 "2015-06-19T17:09:45Z")
Dylan - Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat, Queen Jane Approximately ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/73 "2015-06-19T17:54:10Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > That’s cool, but you’d have a thread with about 6 posts. Six posts about songs, six pages of how the question should’ve been worded. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/74 "2015-06-19T19:02:50Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Maybe I should narrow the search parameters here: 70s Fem Glurge = songs by female performers, recorded between 1970-1980, about tragic, unidealized women who are: > –past their peak of attractiveness > –subject to mental illness or depression > –engaged in desperate behavior, possibly including the occult > –surrounded by well-meaning people they cannot confide in > –not completely in control of their own sexuality The weird thing is that the gothic “A Rose for Emily” aspects of those songs don’t seem very 70’s to me. To be seduced and abandoned by some cad is very traditional material for a song, but becoming a barking mad spinster as a consequence is kind of pre-sexual revolution consequence, one would think. Sure, you might throw a “Nothing Compares 2 U” pity party for a month or two, but you don’t expect a full-on Blanche Dubois mental breakdown. Maybe that’s why these songs take place in a Southern milieu. In New York City or Chicago, you get more of a “Frankie & Johnny” motif. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/75 "2015-06-19T19:21:05Z")
I’ve always had the impression that Tori Amos’s main them is damaged women, though I must admit I don’t know much more than the few songs that got a lot of radio play several years ago. \*Silent All These Years \*seems to fit the OP somewhat. The song to me has an overall feeling of despair and desperation and the singer (in the song, not Tori herself) feels like she has some mental / emotional problems. Then there’s always _Shannon_ by Henry Gross. That’s a glurgy, 70s era song about a female who has died. Granted, Shannon is a dog but . . . ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/76 "2015-06-19T19:30:21Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Nineteenth Nervous Breakdown and about 100 other Rolling Stones songs. Good one. Also Amanda Jones. And, from the Beatles, Lady Madonna. Richard Thompson, From Galway to Graceland. ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496/77 "2015-06-20T02:57:32Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Sorry, just remembered another one from the 70s: > > [Brandy](https://youtu.be/Ep7FWnbAaCI) - Looking Glass how does this one qualify? BTW, my daughter in law was named after this song. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delta-dawn-ruby-red-dress-type-of-songs/722496.md?page=3)