# Demand discharge from Hospital **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 7, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073 "2017-05-07T18:05:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Contrarian\_at\_86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Contrarian\_at\_86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrarian_at_86)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/1 "2017-05-07T18:05:50Z")
I was recently in the hospital and told that morning that I would be releasd that same day. However, they had an electical (and computer) outage that afternoon and I was told I would have to stay overnight because they couldn’t find and process the paper discharge order. Most of the staff then left the premises. I demanded and insisted that I wanted to go home ASAP. They insisted that I couldn’t leave and had security monitor me at all times. I ojected strenuously and even threatened to sue, but they were adament that I couldn’t leave and that they were withn their rights in keeping me. I wasn’t finally released until 3:00 that next day!!! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/2 "2017-05-07T18:16:47Z")
Seeing no Question here. I’ve moved the thread to MPSIMS. **samclem** , moderator ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/3 "2017-05-07T19:51:10Z")
A hospital is not a prison. I’m neither a health professional nor a lawyer, but I cannot imagine that the staff could forcibly restrain you if you simply put on your clothes and walked out. That’s what I would do. Also, if I did stay the extra day purely for the hospital’s convenience, I would refuse to pay that extra day’s charges. I always check a hospital’s bill, even if it’s being paid by insurance. On my most recent hospitalization, I found several items that were billed inappropriately and the insurance claim was resubmitted without them. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/4 "2017-05-07T20:38:18Z")
I believe some insurance companies will refuse to cover your treatment if you leave a hospital without being discharged. ---
**Author:** ![txjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@txjim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txjim)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/5 "2017-05-07T20:40:42Z")
There is something else going on here. Assuming this is in the US, the most they can do is let you go Against Medical Advice which, as stated, creates possible insurance issue. A call to the police would be in order if they really did what you claim. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/6 "2017-05-07T20:48:32Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I believe some insurance companies will refuse to cover your treatment if you leave a hospital without being discharged. I think this is a myth, one that is sometimes propagated innocently by people who really belive it. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/7 "2017-05-07T20:50:32Z")
It was many years ago, but I took my grade-school-age child out of the hospital after an appendectomy against [stupid] medical advice, and it was all still covered by insurance. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/8 "2017-05-07T21:00:57Z")
> [@txjim](#): > > There is something else going on here. Assuming this is in the US, the most they can do is let you go Against Medical Advice which, as stated, creates possible insurance issue. A call to the police would be in order if they really did what you claim. if i’m reading the op right he was cleared to go, but before that order could be officially entered into the comp the power went out; so he would no be leaving AMA! if the story unfolded according to the op there is no reason he couldnt just walk out of the hosp. there’s either more to the story or the staff overstepped their authority. imo mc ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/9 "2017-05-07T21:15:22Z")
The insurance not paying for AMA is a myth. There have been several threads here regarding that. If this happened in the US then there is way more to the story. The staff would not leave because of a power outage, handwritten D/C papers could have been used etc. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/10 "2017-05-07T22:29:43Z")
Surprised no one has asked this question so far - **Contrarian** , what were you in the hospital for? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/11 "2017-05-07T23:05:38Z")
My mother discharged herself from the hospital a few years ago after she passed out in the airport. She had to sign a paper saying that she was going against doctor’s orders. The insurance paid with no issues. Doctors and hospital administrators have no legal right to hold anyone against their will, unless they believe that the patient is a danger to himself or somebody else. And even then, it’s not very easy. And I daresay the insurance company would refuse to pay a hospital that hold a patient for longer than is medically necessary because of some computer glitch. And “monitoring” the patient to ensure he doesn’t leave sounds like some Utopian society novel. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/12 "2017-05-07T23:14:52Z")
Yeah. It sounds like something else was going on. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/13 "2017-05-08T01:43:00Z")
Perhaps a hospital could forcibly hold a patient who was admitted for a psych hold following arrest under some Mental health law? I’m not sure it is done that way in the States but it is in my home country. If such a patient started to agitate to demand to leave then I could envision staff telling him a lie in order to delay things long enough to get security or police on scene. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/14 "2017-05-08T01:47:16Z")
The hospital can hold someone who was in an auto accident until the person is cleared of fault, if the accident was serious enough that an arrest might be pending. I know of at least one case where I’m pretty sure the doctors did a work slow-down until they got permission from the cops to release the patient. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/15 "2017-05-08T01:50:53Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Perhaps a hospital could forcibly hold a patient who was admitted for a psych hold following arrest under some Mental health law? I’m not sure it is done that way in the States but it is in my home country. > > If such a patient started to agitate to demand to leave then I could envision staff telling him a lie in order to delay things long enough to get security or police on scene. It’s also possible that a dementia patient has confused the situation with something else that once happened-- maybe a delay in getting a military discharge because something broke down. The military can do what it wants. Or a delay in getting to go somewhere by plane if the computer went off-line. The OP was really detained by the hospital, but may have confabulated the computer problem from some other life event. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/16 "2017-05-08T01:52:19Z")
And for the record, hospital personnel get threatened with lawsuits regularly. Anyone who has been on the job for more than a year or so who is the recipient of such a “threat” is rolling their eyes at you. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/17 "2017-05-08T02:22:03Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Perhaps a hospital could forcibly hold a patient who was admitted for a psych hold following arrest under some Mental health law? I’m not sure it is done that way in the States but it is in my home country. “In the States” is right: Each state would have its own laws regarding involuntary psychiatric holds. In California, it’s [section 5150 of their law](http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=WIC§ionNum=5150): > [@](#): > > (a) When a person, as a result of a mental health disorder, is a danger to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled, a peace officer, professional person in charge of a facility designated by the county for evaluation and treatment, member of the attending staff, as defined by regulation, of a facility designated by the county for evaluation and treatment, designated members of a mobile crisis team, or professional person designated by the county may, upon probable cause, take, or cause to be taken, the person into custody for a period of up to 72 hours for assessment, evaluation, and crisis intervention, or placement for evaluation and treatment in a facility designated by the county for evaluation and treatment and approved by the State Department of Health Care Services. At a minimum, assessment, as defined in Section 5150.4, and evaluation, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 5008, shall be conducted and provided on an ongoing basis. Crisis intervention, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 5008, may be provided concurrently with assessment, evaluation, or any other service. So. If a police officer finds you running in and out of traffic, or screaming incoherently and waving a machete around, or, because the standard is probable cause, finds you with a gun near where there have been reports of someone matching your description threatening people with a firearm, they can take you to a mental health facility, where they can involuntarily detain you for up to three days. California law also has [section 5250](http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=WIC§ionNum=5250): > [@](#): > > If a person is detained for 72 hours under the provisions of Article 1 (commencing with Section 5150), or under court order for evaluation pursuant to Article 2 (commencing with Section 5200) or Article 3 (commencing with Section 5225) and has received an evaluation, he or she may be certified for not more than 14 days of intensive treatment related to the mental health disorder or impairment by chronic alcoholism, under the following conditions: > > (a) The professional staff of the agency or facility providing evaluation services has analyzed the person’s condition and has found the person is, as a result of a mental health disorder or impairment by chronic alcoholism, a danger to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled. > > (b) The facility providing intensive treatment is designated by the county to provide intensive treatment, and agrees to admit the person. No facility shall be designated to provide intensive treatment unless it complies with the certification review hearing required by this article. The procedures shall be described in the county Short-Doyle plan as required by Section 5651.3. > > (c) The person has been advised of the need for, but has not been willing or able to accept, treatment on a voluntary basis. > > (d) (1) Notwithstanding paragraph (1) of subdivision (h) of Section 5008, a person is not “gravely disabled” if that person can survive safely without involuntary detention with the help of responsible family, friends, or others who are both willing and able to help provide for the person’s basic personal needs for food, clothing, or shelter. [Here’s an article on the more general practice of involuntary psychiatric holds](http://www.mdedge.com/currentpsychiatry/article/65041/practice-management/psychiatric-holds-nonpsychiatric-patients) and on why they really can’t be used for anything _other_ than mental illness. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/18 "2017-05-08T05:39:40Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > **The hospital can hold someone who was in an auto accident until the person is cleared of fault, if the accident was serious enough that an arrest might be pending.** I know of at least one case where I’m pretty sure the doctors did a work slow-down until they got permission from the cops to release the patient. Bolding mine. That is not true, at least in the US. We have a very limited set of reasons to notify the police. Car accidents are not even close to included. The second sentence is possible but definitely not policy. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/19 "2017-05-08T06:53:17Z")
I’m sorry RivkahChaya my answer was a little brusque. Healthcare providers are held to strict standards with regard to reporting on patients. Gunshots and stabbings are required to be reported to the police. Abuse of children, the elderly, or vulnerable adults are required to be reported. Some areas require dog bites to be reported. Some sexually transmitted diseases have to be reported to the state health department. Rabies and a few other virulent diseases are reported to the state health department. All deaths are reported to the coroner. But with the exception of the above list, we absolutely do not talk to the police. The reasoning behind that, is that we don’t want people to be afraid to come to the hospital. We don’t contact the police about drug abuse and we don’t provide them with drug or alcohol screens. In the case you mentioned about “holding a patient until they are cleared of fault in an auto accident”, first of all, we can’t “hold” a patient without compelling evidence that they are a danger to themselves or others. Secondly, we have no idea what happened in the field (the accident site), lots of times the patient doesn’t either, and beside trying to determine the mechanism of injury, we really aren’t that interested. We see a lot of accidents. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073/20 "2017-05-08T07:19:07Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > I’m sorry RivkahChaya my answer was a little brusque. > > Healthcare providers are held to strict standards with regard to reporting on patients. > > Gunshots and stabbings are required to be reported to the police. Abuse of children, the elderly, or vulnerable adults are required to be reported. Some areas require dog bites to be reported. Some sexually transmitted diseases have to be reported to the state health department. Rabies and a few other virulent diseases are reported to the state health department. All deaths are reported to the coroner. > > But with the exception of the above list, we absolutely do not talk to the police. The reasoning behind that, is that we don’t want people to be afraid to come to the hospital. > We don’t contact the police about drug abuse and we don’t provide them with drug or alcohol screens. > > In the case you mentioned about “holding a patient until they are cleared of fault in an auto accident”, first of all, we can’t “hold” a patient without compelling evidence that they are a danger to themselves or others. Secondly, we have no idea what happened in the field (the accident site), lots of times the patient doesn’t either, and beside trying to determine the mechanism of injury, we really aren’t that interested. We see a lot of accidents. Are you in a big city? Because in small towns, where the cops know the doctors, and the cops have coerced someone to take an ambulance ride in because they think the person might be altered, the person most certainly can be held. Although it occurs to me that this may have happened before HIPAA, so maybe things are different now. Understand, in this case, the person crossed the center line and caused an accident, but it wasn’t due to drugs or alcohol, although I can believe that a lot of cases are. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demand-discharge-from-hospital/786073.md?page=2)