# demanding I send passport back to US???? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 29, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182 "2011-04-29T17:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/21 "2011-04-29T19:54:03Z")
If the OP was actually short $500 a month for 3 years, that’s $18,000. I’d say he’s getting off cheap paying only $10,000. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/22 "2011-04-29T20:06:14Z")
Wait, I thought the OP _negotiated_ (with courts, ex, or whoever) a lower payment due to unemployment, and had only missed the last few payments. Is this not true? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/23 "2011-04-29T20:08:41Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Wait, I thought the OP _negotiated_ (with courts, ex, or whoever) a lower payment due to unemployment, and had only missed the last few payments. Is this not true? No, not true. It’s in the OP. > [@mboyd777](#): > > ANYWAY, back to the papers… I decided not to go battle in court, mostly because I had no money for an attorney. … sooooo I left the country ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/24 "2011-04-29T20:10:30Z")
Let me be the first to throw in my bet that we’ll never hear from the OP again. Joined to ask his one question. From all appearances, didn’t get the answers he was seeking. Will never post again. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/25 "2011-04-29T20:15:53Z")
Still, this is something I dont understand. When you’re condemned to pay alimony, or child support. Isnt the amount based on your income? There’s no modification to the amount you must pay even if your income has varied enormously (like either becoming far richer or, more likely, becoming unemployed and such)? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/26 "2011-04-29T20:23:09Z")
I suppose a petition for reduced child support would require going to court to make such a stipulation. The OP chose instead to flee the country. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/27 "2011-04-29T20:24:14Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Still, this is something I dont understand. When you’re condemned to pay alimony, or child support. Isnt the amount based on your income? There’s no modification to the amount you must pay even if your income has varied enormously (like either becoming far richer or, more likely, becoming unemployed and such)? Agreements, even court ordered agreements can be amended. You just have to have all of the parties agree to it. In the case of a divorce decree regarding alimony or a custody agreement regarding child support, the court is a party to the agreements and must be approved by them. If you are the payer and you lose your job and are on some sort of reduced unemployment benefits for an extended period of time, you can petition the court to reduce your payments. Conversely if you are the recipient of child support and you discover that your child’s parent has had their income substantially increase, you can petition the court to have those payments increased. In the end, it’s up to the judge. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/28 "2011-04-29T21:21:48Z")
He’s luck he’s not Canadian. Hearing Dave Foley (Kids in the Hall) describe the nightmare he’s gone through w/ child support in Canadian courts is one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard. If you want to hear him talk about it, find his interview on the Marc Maron podcast “WTF?” that he did a few months back. It’s nuts. (In brief, because he was making a million bucks a year when he was divorced however many years ago - he is required by Canadian law to continue making that level of income - even though his career has dried up. He will not travel to Canada for fear of being arrested at the border. The story is a lot more complex than that, but I really feel for the guy). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/29 "2011-04-30T02:55:15Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > And people wonder why I found the expats in China sleazy… Look, I get that you and China didn’t really get along but you gave it the ol’ college try. And you hung out with a sleezy boyfriend who was a total scumbag to you and that negatively colored your experience. That said, you could take the highroad and just not make these kinds of sweeping comments. I’m just saying… ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/30 "2011-05-02T00:15:53Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > why marriage is a bad idea nowadays - Exhibit A1000001. But people never learn. Only if you’re referring to the OP’s wife and child. It was a bad idea for her to marry him. ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/31 "2011-05-02T00:22:34Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > He’s luck he’s not Canadian. Hearing Dave Foley (Kids in the Hall) describe the nightmare he’s gone through w/ child support in Canadian courts is one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard. If you want to hear him talk about it, find his interview on the Marc Maron podcast “WTF?” that he did a few months back. It’s nuts. > > (In brief, because he was making a million bucks a year when he was divorced however many years ago - he is required by Canadian law to continue making that level of income - even though his career has dried up. He will not travel to Canada for fear of being arrested at the border. The story is a lot more complex than that, but I really feel for the guy). Is Dave Foley paying anything to his former spouse? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/32 "2011-05-02T01:29:01Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > That said, you could take the highroad and just not make these kinds of sweeping comments. I’m just saying… I guess that was uncalled for, but it brings me right back to a whole universe full of shadesters that could fill a novel: The ultra-intellectual black panther living in the woods on the edge of town with his strange family- a wife he couldn’t communicate with and a toddler- he swore they had an open marriage (on the run after his US house was ransacked on terrorism allegations). We’d practice Fulfulde together… The unflappable BBC-mystery loving British mercenary who spent his days practicing yoga and playing elaborate solo war strategy board games in his room (hiding a rather large mercenary fortune from British taxes)… The middle aged alcoholic American woman who rarely left her house, but paid high school boys handsomely to deliver food and booze and “keep her company”… The “Nigerian” (who knew nothing about the country he claims to have come from) who showed up one night in our town with 20 RMB, no passport, and a story about “something bad in Guangzhou.” He took the first train anywhere, no idea where it was going, and ended up wandering around our little city with no idea what province he was in…and somehow he stayed for more than a year… A predatory white Namibian lesbian who would pull figerbang trains in club bathrooms, people who could name a half-dozen countries they’ve been kicked out of, ketamine addicts, a man who bounced around to a different school each year (for nearly a decade) because he was a raving schizophrenic who spent his classes teaching about lizard people, fake coal-mine experts, drug runners, mafia mistresses…and of course a ton of people dodging student loans and child support. It’s a shady world out there. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/33 "2011-05-02T01:34:38Z")
Sounds cool enough. ---
**Author:** ![mboyd777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@mboyd777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mboyd777)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/34 "2011-05-02T05:48:15Z")
Thank you all for your honesty. It would be pointless to try and rebutt these remarks, but yes, somehow, I must get a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/35 "2011-05-02T06:53:22Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > He’s luck he’s not Canadian. Hearing Dave Foley (Kids in the Hall) describe the nightmare he’s gone through w/ child support in Canadian courts is one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard. If you want to hear him talk about it, find his interview on the Marc Maron podcast “WTF?” that he did a few months back. It’s nuts. > > (In brief, because he was making a million bucks a year when he was divorced however many years ago - he is required by Canadian law to continue making that level of income - even though his career has dried up. He will not travel to Canada for fear of being arrested at the border. The story is a lot more complex than that, but I really feel for the guy). As a Canadian lawyer, I find this hard to believe. In all provinces, it is certainly possible for a parent paying support to apply to a court to have the payment amount varied–down, if the paying parent is making less; up, if the receiving parent finds out that the payor is earning a lot more. Foley would not be arrested at the border. Being in debt is not a crime, and we don’t put debtors in jail. Life can get quite stressful for debtors, thanks to legal collection techniques such as property seizure and garnishment, but I’ve never heard of anybody being arrested for owing money in Canada. Foley needs a lawyer who will set him straight and who will make his application in the necessary court. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/36 "2011-05-02T13:01:41Z")
$200/month = $7/day. Yeah, your ex-wife is taking full advantage of you by hitting you up for back child support for the child that you helped create. BTW, how much did it cost you for the airline ticket so that you could “spend some time with your family”? And did that include your daughter? BTW. even kids with unemployed parents need food, clothing and shelter. You dropped the ball on supporting your daughter, and now you’re balking about how unfair it all is? Incredible. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/37 "2011-05-02T13:45:47Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > And people wonder why I found the expats in China sleazy… Good point, only a sleezebag or a pervert would work overseas. Trust me, I know. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/38 "2011-05-02T17:08:36Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > As a Canadian lawyer, I find this hard to believe. In all provinces, it is certainly possible for a parent paying support to apply to a court to have the payment amount varied–down, if the paying parent is making less; up, if the receiving parent finds out that the payor is earning a lot more. > > Foley would not be arrested at the border. Being in debt is not a crime, and we don’t put debtors in jail. Life can get quite stressful for debtors, thanks to legal collection techniques such as property seizure and garnishment, but I’ve never heard of anybody being arrested for owing money in Canada. > > Foley needs a lawyer who will set him straight and who will make his application in the necessary court. [Story here.](http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/kids-hall-member-dave-foley-claims-t-afford-20110204-123011-544.html) He has had his motions to reduce his payment denied by the courts. It’s been going on for quite some time. > [@](#): > > “I’m happy to give away half my money, that would be great,” said Foley. "But I’m literally obligated to give away 400 per cent of my income, or otherwise go to jail. > > “The judge even said, if I was paralyzed from the neck down, I would still be responsible for having to earn a million dollars a year.” ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/39 "2011-05-02T17:41:25Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > [Story here.](http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/kids-hall-member-dave-foley-claims-t-afford-20110204-123011-544.html) > He has had his motions to reduce his payment denied by the courts. It’s been going on for quite some time. Thanks, **Bob**. I was able to find a [news story](http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/television/article/952260--comedian-dave-foley-fears-arrest-owes-500-000-in-child-support) from the Toronto Star, which fills in a lot of details. Most notable in the story is this from Jacqueline Mills, who is the lawyer representing Foley’s ex wife, Tabatha Southey: > [@](#): > > … Mr. Foley has tried to have the amounts changed a number of times, and after full hearings, his requests have been denied,” Mills wrote in an email to the Star. “Mr. Foley was ordered to provide details of his employment contracts. He has not done so, so **we do not know what his income is**. Emphasis added. It is necessary when applying for a variance to prove why the variance is necessary–most often, by providing documentary evidence of income. Tax returns are commonly used, but pay stubs and employer’s letters and affidavits can provide support; and in addition, bank records and bills help too. Of course, if one doesn’t have a regular, salaried job, whatever evidence can be used, will be; and in Foley’s case, this would be the contracts that attest to what he is being paid. Based on the Star story, it sounds to me like Foley is attempting to vary the support payments without providing the documentation that would support his claim. But no court will vary a payment simply on a party’s say-so; and so, he is stuck with payments based on what he _did_ provide in the past. I maintain that what I said before is accurate–that a variance in support payments is possible. If Foley is unsuccessful in his applications to vary, and he fails to provide documentary evidence attesting to his lower income, then he has only himself to blame if the court denies his applications. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182/40 "2011-05-02T17:52:43Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Thanks, **Bob**. I was able to find a [news story](http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/television/article/952260--comedian-dave-foley-fears-arrest-owes-500-000-in-child-support) from the Toronto Star, which fills in a lot of details. Most notable in the story is this from Jacqueline Mills, who is the lawyer representing Foley’s ex wife, Tabatha Southey: > > Emphasis added. It is necessary when applying for a variance to prove why the variance is necessary–most often, by providing documentary evidence of income. Tax returns are commonly used, but pay stubs and employer’s letters and affidavits can provide support; and in addition, bank records and bills help too. Of course, if one doesn’t have a regular, salaried job, whatever evidence can be used, will be; and in Foley’s case, this would be the contracts that attest to what he is being paid. > > Based on the Star story, it sounds to me like Foley is attempting to vary the support payments without providing the documentation that would support his claim. But no court will vary a payment simply on a party’s say-so; and so, he is stuck with payments based on what he _did_ provide in the past. > > I maintain that what I said before is accurate–that a variance in support payments is possible. If Foley is unsuccessful in his applications to vary, and he fails to provide documentary evidence attesting to his lower income, then he has only himself to blame if the court denies his applications. How does one prove that you’re \*\*not \*\*making a million bucks a year? Any documentation he could give to show what he DID earn wouldn’t settle anything, as the ex would just claim he’s hiding other gigs/income. How does one prove a negative like this? I’m genuinely curious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/demanding-i-send-passport-back-to-us/580182.md?page=3)