# Democracy in Danger? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2021, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973 "2021-01-07T22:36:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/1 "2021-01-07T22:36:11Z")
What surprises me most about the events of 1/6/2021 (I would say attempted coup, but I think that gives it a gravitas that it does not have) is the pathetic and shabby nature of it. In my humble opinion, democracy was never in danger from rednecks wandering the Capitol Building with confederate flags. Indeed, the rather obvious and predictable result of those visuals was to provide a mighty club with which to beat them. It also gave some of Trump’s enablers a reason to pretend they had found their spines. (Fk Mick Mulvaney. Fk Kellyanne Conway - I’ll stop now. There are way too many and this isn’t the pit). I don’t want to trivialize what happened. Explosive devices were found. A woman was shot by police (a stupid woman, but that should not be a capital crime). But generally it was a comic scene (darkly comic, but comic nonetheless). Even the cops were pathetic in their response (It’s not like this came as a surprise). I would ask “What were they thinking? Exactly how did they see this playing out?”, but it is clear that neither Trump nor his followers are long on thinking and their plan is to shout slogans and make vague threats. I hope that I live to see how this is viewed thirty years from now. It will certainly be an iconic moment in our history and I would like to think that people will wonder at the sheer pathetic incompetence of it and think “Wow. Trump. What a Loser!” ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/2 "2021-01-07T23:36:41Z")
Ignorant takes like this are what’s putting democracy in danger. Doing nothing, pointing and laughing, treating this like a drunken college prank is exactly how you ensure this country collapses. I’m utterly disgusted by the excuses people are now making for the deplorables. If there ever was a time to make an example of someone now is the time. The penalties here should be horrifying. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/3 "2021-01-07T23:46:39Z")
If you’re looking for a real threat to democracy, look no further than [ALEC](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legislative_Exchange_Council). The American Legislative Exchange Committee. Those weekend warriors we saw yesterday are nothing in comparison. > **[Exposing ALEC: How Conservative-Backed State Laws Are All Connected](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/04/exposing-alec-how-conservative-backed-state-laws-are-all-connected/255869/)** > > How a shadowy organization uses corporate contributions to sell prepackaged conservative bills -- such as Florida's Stand Your Ground statute -- to legislatures across the country. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aIMgfBZrrZ8/maxresdefault.jpg "State Legislatures and ALEC: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIMgfBZrrZ8) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/4 "2021-01-08T02:33:07Z")
Moved to Pit as this is a rant and not a debate. ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/5 "2021-01-08T03:17:24Z")
I am certainly not advocating doing nothing. I agree that making examples is in order. I don’t know about horrifying, but the penalties should be severe. As I said, they gave us a club, and we _should_ beat them with it. I simply cannot imagine a way in this could have been turned to Trump’s advantage. However, I could certainly be wrong and I did not mean to put democracy in danger. ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/6 "2021-01-08T03:34:48Z")
A rant? It really felt like I was expressing a viewpoint about Politics & the Election and it still does on rereading. There is a bit of a rant involved, but it was only tangential and I stopped myself pretty quickly. No it is not a debate and I did not think it needed to be (in the Politics forum). I would request that you reconsider your decision. If you decide to keep it in the pit, I would request that you simply delete it as it makes no sense there. People have expectations about what is in the pit that will color their reading of it. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/7 "2021-01-08T08:51:58Z")
I will reply with restraint in order to preserve your stated wish to see this moved back out of the Pit. > [@ethelbert](#): > > In my humble opinion, democracy was never in danger from rednecks wandering the Capitol Building with confederate flags. The health, and inversely the death, of democracy is not an all-or-nothing one-time thing. Democracy is whittled away by a thousand cuts. It withers and decays. Eventually it does collapse quickly but this is presaged by a long period of destabilization and decomposition. As the saying goes, Rome didn’t fall in a day. Yes, on Monday, the barbarians had not passed through the gates, and then, on Tuesday, they were in the streets of the city. But that doesn’t mean Rome was strong and healthy on Monday, and it doesn’t mean the single fatal blow was struck on Tuesday. The American democracy has been in decline for decades. This event is not the crisis that will finally push it over the cliff to shatter on the ground below. But it is certainly an acceleration toward the edge, and your minimization of it is a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/8 "2021-01-08T10:20:49Z")
Trump signed an [executive order](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/capitol-rioters-prison-trump-executive-order-b1784256.html) this year in the context of BLM “authorising up to 10 years of imprisonment for 'injury of federal property”. Let’s see if the judges apply it. As an aside: democracy is not a goal in itself, it is a means for fairness and justice. What really is in danger is not so much democracy, where a majority, however slim, manipulated or gerrymandered, can impose its will on the minority. That will stay, even Russia or Iran can _claim_ that. What is in danger IMO is the Rule of Law: equal laws for all, equally applied, published and known in advance, without retroactivity. ETA: And I have read that there were 5 deaths in the coup, not one, including a police officer. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/9 "2021-01-08T12:10:17Z")
> [@ethelbert](#): > > I would ask “What were they thinking? Exactly how did they see this playing out?” I know someone from PA who went to DC to “stop the steal”. They believed they, along with their compatriots, would force a change and nullify the 2020 elections. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/10 "2021-01-08T12:44:14Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > I have read that there were 5 deaths in the coup, not one, including a police officer. The fifth death was announced overnight, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/11 "2021-01-08T13:15:30Z")
Yes, our democracy is in danger. Two huge examples: Rome was a democratic Republic. In fact, it was closely tailored to the Greek model. The Roman Empire was founded when Augustus Caesar proclaimed himself the first emperor of Rome in 31BC. Hitler was legally appointed as Chancellor of a free Germany in 1933. He ended up as one of the most horrific dictators in history. Trump incited his “brown shirts” to come to Washington and prevent his legally chosen replacement from taking office by incessantly repeating the blatant lie that the election had been stolen from him despite the fact that over 60 lawsuits were thrown out due to LACK OF EVIDENCE and the Supreme Court, HIS court, threw it out as well. THAT is a direct attack on our democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/12 "2021-01-08T13:43:15Z")
Call it a “Beer Hall Putch”. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/13 "2021-01-08T13:51:05Z")
If you don’t think that democracy in the United States is in danger, I’ve got a homework assignment for you. Do some Googling and search for examples of legislatures - state, federal, or international - in which mobs overran state government buildings. Where did they occur? When? What were the circumstances leading up to it? I could be wrong, but I’m guessing you’ll probably see that this is absolutely no joke after reading about two or three examples. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/14 "2021-01-08T14:56:15Z")
I thought of a right wing Christmas carol for the future. Storm the halls like Nazi elves… MAGA-ga-ga-ga, MAGA-ga-ga Break some windows, taze ourselves… MAGA-ga-ga-ga, MAGA-ga-ga Don, you know, the orange fellow? MAGA-ga, MAGA-ga, MAGA-ga Tweets he loves us, but stay mellow. MAGA-ga-ga-ga, MAGA-ga-ga ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/15 "2021-01-08T15:17:58Z")
[Taking a deep breath] I expressed myself poorly, especially in my title. I certainly believe that the last four years have been an attack on democracy. All of the examples cited above are certainly indicative of that attack. My post concerned itself solely with the events of 1/6, events which I still consider to be darkly comic. This does not mean that I am amused and chuckling at “those wacky Trump supporters”. > [@kayaker](#): > > I know someone from PA who went to DC to “stop the steal”. They believed they, along with their compatriots, would force a change and nullify the 2020 elections. Seriously. I certainly understand that they felt this way, but this “feeling” was apparently all that guided them. All their actions managed to do was to fully discredit Trump, at least for the time being. This is how the Trump presidency will be remembered. I do take the threat to democracy seriously. Punish those involved. I would prefer to see Trump serve out his term because as soon as Pence is President, he will pardon Trump. I would like to see Trump pardon himself and resolve the issue of whether that is legal, once and for all. I hope I have clarified my feelings, but I expect not. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/16 "2021-01-08T15:35:38Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > I have read that there were 5 deaths in the coup, not one, including a police officer. Three of those were due to medical issues so they’re being counted separately from the two who died from violence. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/17 "2021-01-08T16:02:06Z")
I guess that is actually good news. OTOH 3 out of, how many? 1,000? 10,000? dying of a heart attack in a single evening? Seems like a statistical fluke to me. Like so many things in the last four years. Or maybe it’s a sign of a particularly unhealthy following. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/18 "2021-01-08T16:06:22Z")
Sounds like one accidentally tasered himself and shorted out his pacemaker or something. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/19 "2021-01-08T16:08:13Z")
I am not going to search for that: I believe you. 🤦‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973/20 "2021-01-08T17:13:06Z")
I have read from multiple news outlets that a man died after accidentally using a taser on himself, but since I haven’t seen it repeated on any of the major news sources I am tentatively considering it to be a rumor at this point. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-in-danger/929973.md?page=2)