# Democracy is dead in Georgia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 9, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697 "2018-10-09T15:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/41 "2018-10-09T22:15:05Z")
So, half a million voters disenfranchised in the state that has the fucking Confederate flag as part of its state flag, and Bricker’s bitch is that someone mentioned Jim Crow. Perspective fail. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/42 "2018-10-09T22:24:25Z")
Wait, that’s Mississippi, isn’t it. Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/43 "2018-10-09T22:31:24Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It is a [combination](https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/10/09/us/ap-us-election-2018-georgia-governor-voter-registration.html)of purging infrequent voters and purging people with trivial differences between their registration and their ID documents, such as a dropped hyphen in one’s last name. > > \*\*It is bullshit, and more evidence that our country is in a cold civil war. \*\*The GOP seems to be happy with that, as they have the upper hand. We’ll see how long that lasts. We have to understand that this is not a fair fight - the right wing doesn’t want a fair fight. People in the center and left have, for far too long, been complacent. Not showing up in mid-term elections, not showing up in sufficient numbers in presidential election cycles. It would be great if we could say to progressives and left-leaning moderates “just go out and vote,” and for sure, that must be said. But what do we do when we actually do show up and vote, and in greater numbers than the conservatives, and…we still lose? Not merely because we were lazy and chose not to vote, but because many were discouraged against voting? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/44 "2018-10-09T22:32:34Z")
Anyway, like I’ve been saying, y’all hate me…but you know, deep down in, I’m right. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/45 "2018-10-09T22:41:26Z")
Shriug, was Georgia ever a democracy? Isn’t this what the second amendment is for, it is it only so that people in Florida can murder blacks? Red state America has always been a shithole. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/46 "2018-10-09T22:47:39Z")
And if there’s anything that scares Republicans, it’s lots of people voting. Trump can talk all he wants about rigged this and rigged that, but Republicans depend on a rigged game. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/47 "2018-10-09T23:03:35Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > And if there’s anything that scares Republicans, it’s lots of people voting. Trump can talk all he wants about rigged this and rigged that, but Republicans depend on a rigged game. What scares them most is black people; black people voting, black people going to the store, black children playing. Black people existing terrifies them. Arm blacks and see how fast Fox News supports gun control. We’re well past democratic solutions in Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/48 "2018-10-09T23:28:19Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Wait, that’s Mississippi, isn’t it. > > Dammit. Georgia’s state flag does contain a confederate flag, it’s just a lesser-known one. If anyone ever saw a Brian Kemp ad, you’d understand what we’re talking about. Take the dumbest Trump pitch you ever saw, and multiply it tenfold. “Haw haw, I got me a big pickup truck to take them illegals back to Mexico.” It’s literally that stupid. It’s very likely someone this stupid is running some sort of con like Trump. He should be investigated, and it’s probably jail-worthy, and I’d laugh. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/49 "2018-10-09T23:39:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you think Kemp should go to jail even if he has not broken the law. Since I didn’t say it, I guess either your reading ability or your ESP must be out of whack. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/50 "2018-10-09T23:40:10Z")
History of Georgia’s flag: > **[Flag of Georgia (U.S. state)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state))** > > The current flag of Georgia was adopted on February 19, 2003. The flag bears three horizontal stripes (a red-white-red triband) and features a blue canton containing a ring of 13 white stars that encircle the state's gold-colored coat of arms. The ring of stars that encompass the state's coat of arms represents Georgia as one of the original Thirteen Colonies. > In the coat of arms, the arch symbolizes the state's constitution while the pillars represent the three branches of government. The wo... ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/51 "2018-10-09T23:43:51Z")
What **Bricker** consistently fails to realize is that laws can be changed, and should be in service of abstract notions like justice and morality. Thus, one can say that Kemp should go to jail for this, and mean by that that the laws ought to be changed to make things like what he’s doing illegal. The laws _aren’t_ changed yet, but they _should_ be. It’s possible to make value judgements on bases other than “is this legal or not”, and in fact those who make laws _must_ use other value judgements to determine which laws to make. So, **Bricker** , what’s your value judgement? Should this sort of mass disenfranchisement be legal? If you were a Georgia legislator, would you vote for a bill to make it illegal? Why or why not? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/52 "2018-10-09T23:46:56Z")
So we have **Shodan** making snarky remarks with no substance, and **Bricker** willfully misunderstanding in order to have an excuse to attack liberals with a strawman. All because they have to figure out some way to defend something that they know is wrong. People are being disenfranchised by attempts that claim they are about security. We’re seeing direct attempts to subvert democracy. And rather than say “I know they are Republicans, but they don’t represent me!” we just have people doing whatever they can to kiss up. Any conservatives want to show they have more integrity than these two? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/53 "2018-10-10T00:43:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > People are being disenfranchised by attempts that claim they are about security. And the truly disgusting thing in Georgia is the fact that Secretary of State Brian Kemp is the reason Georgia’s -very hackable- voting machines _don’t_ produce a paper trail, and he’s also the reason Georgia turned down federal money for cybersecurity of the voting apparatus. Yes, he’s quite worried about voter confidence and electoral integrity. (He’s ensuring only the correct voters get the former, and the latter might get in the way of his governorship.) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/54 "2018-10-10T00:55:23Z")
Don’t forget to knock on doors and phone bank. Don’t give up, ppl!!! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/55 "2018-10-10T00:57:26Z")
Both **Shodan** and **Bricker** both are casually dismissive of oppression, each in their own way, and then, when the oppressed lash out, thet get to tut-tut about the uppity darkies. They are fucking horrible people. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/56 "2018-10-10T01:00:30Z")
Don’t give up home. Knock on (white) doors. Phone bank. Let’s play. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/57 "2018-10-10T01:09:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Crazy semantic argument gets even crazier. Deserves? Should? I didn’t even think that was the issue. But really, do you think anytime someone says “that person should go to jail for what they did” a reasonable response is “well, it’s not illegal, so ur dumb”? My bold stance is simply that one can believe an act is jail-worthy, regardless of whether or not right this moment it is clear that the act would be punishable by jail time. I can’t believe this is actually confusing or controversial. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/58 "2018-10-10T01:11:51Z")
Well, **Shodan**? You wonder what really happened? I’m still curious what part of this you think didn’t happen, and why. > [@Eonwe](#): > > The man did some reporting. He has a list of names removed from the rolls. He hired an outside analyst who found that thousands of them belong to people who are still residents of GA. > > He is subsequently taking the Secretary of State to court to get him to release records he won’t voluntarily release. > > Which part of this do you suggest he is lying about? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/59 "2018-10-10T01:19:06Z")
I have a saying that applies in cases like this: The predictable effect is the intended effect. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697/60 "2018-10-10T01:40:22Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Don’t give up home. > > Knock on (white) doors. > > Phone bank. > > Let’s play. To one-up you: that only works if we have paper trails. There are enough people at the grass-roots level to volunteer to do the counting of the votes that if anyone tries to tamper with the vote they would contradict the _actually impartial_ vote-counting precinct volunteers. But not if there is no need for vote counters. What are the mechanisms to prevent vote tampering at a precinct level with computerized voting? Vote counters can’t go back and look at the machines if the machines are suspect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-is-dead-in-georgia/822697.md?page=4)