# Democracy Now! Host and Producers Arrested at Republican Convention **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703 "2008-09-02T17:22:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/21 "2008-09-03T15:52:04Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > In case you hadn’t noticed, more posters than not here are downplaying this incident. And that includes what you would consider the usual suspects (and my 'umble self). I take it you didn’t read the OP, then. Although, to be fair, I live in the area where the RNC is happening. And every fucking article I read in the local papers about the convention and the rioters, there is some twit from the National Lawyer’s Guild condemning the police. One jerk this morning was saying that the riots would not have happened if the police _weren’t_ there. :rolleyes: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/22 "2008-09-03T16:54:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > One jerk this morning was saying that the riots would not have happened if the police _weren’t_ there. :rolleyes: > > Regards, > Shodan yeah… “I didn’t pull the cat’s tail, I just held it… the _cat_ pulled…” stopped working when I was about five… > [@NurseCarmen](#): > > The legitimate protesters should hence forth disassociate themselves from the violent knuckleheads… My wife is a citizen journalist (aka blogger with a couple cameras) and this is what they are desparately trying to do. She was pretty shaken when she got home from covering the events last night… heck, every night since Saturday, really. We’re not used to seeing that many people in once place here unless they’ve been drinking heavily and eating greasy food, so that many cops in riot gear is kind of unsettling. My wife (who grew up on a dairy farm) likened it in her blog to hanging around large, slow-moving barnyard animals… no sudden movements, don’t get between them and whatever’s likely to startle them, and if they want you to move, move. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/23 "2008-09-03T17:24:04Z")
I realize [this](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/31/raids/index.html) is an opinion piece and not all of the facts are in, but isn’t it more than a little unethical to arrest groups prior to their doing anything illegal based on the word of informants planted in the groups by the federal government? My news feed doesn’t show anything on this from any site more reliable than Salon. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/24 "2008-09-03T18:00:26Z")
I saw the video. She heard that her workers had been arrested. She went up to a cop and told them she and they had high level press passes. She did not push through. The cop just grabbed her and wrestled her away. He was aggressive and physical. When she pointed out all 3 had convention passes ,he yanked them off. They bound all 3 with plastic cuffs. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/25 "2008-09-03T18:10:05Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > I realize [this](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/31/raids/index.html) is an opinion piece and not all of the facts are in, but isn’t it more than a little unethical to arrest groups prior to their doing anything illegal based on the word of informants planted in the groups by the federal government? Uh, no. Because they had already done illegal acts by engaging in a conspiracy in the first place - and thus were subject to arrest at any time. [This story](http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/27793634.html?page=1&c=y) spells out what went down in considerable detail. Note that it is from the _Star-Tribune_, a paper not noted for right-wing advocacy. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/26 "2008-09-03T18:27:28Z")
> **[Infowars: There's a War on for Your Mind!](https://www.infowars.com/?p=1650)** > > The #1 Independent news service in the world, battling globalism and promoting a pro-human future worldwide. Infowars is Tomorrow's News Today. The police has elevated the handling of protests. The now video all the leaders from head to toe. then they attempt to follow them later and get their identities. The Homeland Security and FBI then run files on them. That is why you see so many marchers covering their faces. At this convention they have had pre-emptive raids. They have busted doors down on protest groups as they arrived in town. Then if you can keep them jailed until the convention is over you win. One group just makes videos of cop mistreatments. They were busted early. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/27 "2008-09-03T18:49:55Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > [This story](http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/27793634.html?page=1&c=y) spells out what went down in considerable detail. Note that it is from the _Star-Tribune_, a paper not noted for right-wing advocacy. I don’t know where the hell you get that idea! Unless you have been listening to right-wing talk radio. The Star-Tribune has always been pretty much a moderate Republican leaning newspaper, sort of a Rockefeller Republican type. (But in these times of Karl Rove et. al. maybe that is considered liberal.) With the recent changes in ownership, they have become more conservative, adding the likes of Katherine Kersten to their staff. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/28 "2008-09-03T18:56:44Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > [This story](http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/27793634.html?page=1&c=y) spells out what went down in considerable detail. Note that it is from the _Star-Tribune_, a paper not noted for right-wing advocacy. I don’t know where the hell you get that idea! Unless you have been listening to right-wing talk radio. The Star-Tribune has always been pretty much a moderate Republican leaning newspaper, sort of a Rockefeller Republican type. (But in these times of Karl Rove et. al. maybe that is considered liberal.) With the recent changes in ownership, they have become more conservative, adding the likes of Katherine Kersten to their staff. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/29 "2008-09-03T19:11:50Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > [This story](http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/27793634.html?page=1&c=y) spells out what went down in considerable detail. Note that it is from the _Star-Tribune_, a paper not noted for right-wing advocacy. I don’t know where the hell you get that idea! Unless you have been listening to right-wing talk radio. The Star-Tribune has always been pretty much a moderate Republican leaning newspaper, sort of a Rockefeller Republican type. (But in these times of Karl Rove et. al. maybe that is considered liberal.) With the recent changes in ownership, they have become more conservative, adding the likes of Katherine Kersten to their staff. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/30 "2008-09-03T21:14:09Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I don’t know where the hell you get that idea! Unless you have been listening to right-wing talk radio. > > The Star-Tribune has always been pretty much a moderate Republican leaning newspaper, sort of a Rockefeller Republican type. (But in these times of Karl Rove et. al. maybe that is considered liberal.) With the recent changes in ownership, they have become more conservative, adding the likes of Katherine Kersten to their staff. So nice you had to say it thrice? Anyway, you’re wrong. One conservative columnist doesn’t make a conservative paper. And a “Rockefeller Republican” paper should have found a reason to endorse a Republican for president sometime - yet the Strib hasn’t done so from at least 1988 onward, and probably before then. That’s all I have a cite for, so that will suffice. Anyway, twenty years of endorsing Democrats makes for a Democratic-leaning paper. Which is fine - it just means you’re wrong. [Link.](http://www.wmitchell.edu/lawreview/Volume28/Issue4/09_Nelson.pdf) > [@](#): > > For example, a review of the editorial endorsements of the Minneapolis > Star Tribune from election years 1988 through 2000 reveals the tilt these > endorsements have taken. The following results are listed in order of Democrat, > Republican, and Independent (if present) candidate percentages taken as a whole > from that 12 year time period: U.S. President, 100-0; U.S House, 73-25-2; U.S. > Senate, 75-25; Governor, 33-67; Minnesota Legislature, 70-29-1. The results are on file with author. The extremely partisan commentary within these endorsements is typified with remarks such as those against the Republican challenger of Kathleen Sekhon, the Star Tribune’s endorsee. “Those ideas – cutting taxes, restricting abortion, relaxing laws against carrying concealed weapons – won’t contribute much to bettering life in Minnesota.” Editorial, MPLS. STAR TRIB., Oct. 27, 1998, at A13 And of course the Strib endorsed Kerry. 'Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/31 "2008-09-03T21:18:14Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The police has elevated the handling of protests. The now video all the leaders from head to toe. then they attempt to follow them later and get their identities. The Homeland Security and FBI then run files on them. That is why you see so many marchers covering their faces. Uh huh. Are you aware that covering your face is such a sign of violent protest that most states stipulate that you must protest openly? Minnesota Code 609.735 CONCEALING IDENTITY. A person whose identity is concealed by the person in a public place by means of a robe, mask, or other disguise, unless based on religious beliefs, or incidental to amusement, entertainment, protection from weather, or medical treatment, is guilty of a misdemeanor. The reason for this is pretty clear on first reflection - masks and hoods were what allowed the Klan to get away with its nasty business for so long. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/32 "2008-09-03T22:09:01Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Uh huh. Are you aware that covering your face is such a sign of violent protest that most states stipulate that you must protest openly? > > Minnesota Code 609.735 CONCEALING IDENTITY. > A person whose identity is concealed by the person in a public place by means of a > robe, mask, or other disguise, unless based on religious beliefs, or incidental to amusement, entertainment, protection from weather, or medical treatment, is guilty of a misdemeanor. > > The reason for this is pretty clear on first reflection - masks and hoods were what allowed the Klan to get away with its nasty business for so long. And if covering one’s face is part of the process of protesting, for instance to make a point about loss of identity or privacy, wouldn’t that be protected speech? I get that hiding the face makes it easier to get away with crimes but it doesn’t seem like _peaceful_ protesters should be arrested for wearing masks. The bastards who throw sandbags at cars or bottles at police have already crossed the line and don’t qualify as peaceful. The ones who just hold up signs and chant do. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/33 "2008-09-03T22:15:23Z")
[Goodman interviews the St. Paul Police Chief.](http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/3/amy_goodman_grills_st_paul_police) ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/34 "2008-09-03T22:24:12Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Uh, no. Because they had already done illegal acts by engaging in a conspiracy in the first place - and thus were subject to arrest at any time. > > [This story](http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/27793634.html?page=1&c=y) spells out what went down in considerable detail. Note that it is from the _Star-Tribune_, a paper not noted for right-wing advocacy. I read the piece, it was linked in the Salon story. I realize we do things a bit different here in Texas, but from what I can tell, it’s still perfectly legal to have a gun in your own home, so long as you have a permit. Throwing knives and bow & arrow don’t even require that much. They didn’t produce any warrants until much later, and even when they did, only two people were arrested out of fifty, and those for “fire code violations.” I think HAD they done any illegal acts pertaining to conspiracy, they would have been charged, no? So my question remains: is it legal that the FBI is having people followed and hiring others to infiltrate “fringe” groups, then detaining them, photographing them and breaking into their homes before they even commit any illegal acts? Innocent until PROVED guilty. These people hadn’t done anything wrong, but doors were busted down, a five year old was forced down on the floor…sounds an awful lot like “suspicion of being liberal” to me. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/35 "2008-09-03T23:36:19Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > the unprofessional behavior of the Boulder Police officer in doing it; How dare you attack the renown professionalism of the Boulder Police Department. \ ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/36 "2008-09-04T14:56:33Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > I read the piece, it was linked in the Salon story. I realize we do things a bit different here in Texas, but from what I can tell, it’s still perfectly legal to have a gun in your own home, so long as you have a permit. Throwing knives and bow & arrow don’t even require that much. They didn’t produce any warrants until much later, and even when they did, only two people were arrested out of fifty, and those for “fire code violations.” I think HAD they done any illegal acts pertaining to conspiracy, they would have been charged, no? > > So my question remains: is it legal that the FBI is having people followed and hiring others to infiltrate “fringe” groups, then detaining them, photographing them and breaking into their homes before they even commit any illegal acts? Innocent until PROVED guilty. These people hadn’t done anything wrong, but doors were busted down, a five year old was forced down on the floor…sounds an awful lot like “suspicion of being liberal” to me. Yep, arrested for conspiracy to commit a legal act. A protest.. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/37 "2008-09-04T15:28:39Z")
> [@photopat](#): > > And if covering one’s face is part of the process of protesting, for instance to make a point about loss of identity or privacy, wouldn’t that be protected speech? > > I get that hiding the face makes it easier to get away with crimes but it doesn’t seem like _peaceful_ protesters should be arrested for wearing masks. The bastards who throw sandbags at cars or bottles at police have already crossed the line and don’t qualify as peaceful. The ones who just hold up signs and chant do. These guys cover their faces for exactly the same reason the Klan used to cover their faces. Cowards and knuckleheads always prefer to engage in violent actions anonymously. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/38 "2008-09-04T15:49:38Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Yep, arrested for conspiracy to commit a legal act. A protest.. No, genius, [conspiracy to commit riot in the second degree in furtherance of terrorism](http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/27840409.html?elr=KArks8c7PaP3E77K_3c::D3aDhUec7PaP3E77K_0c::D3aDhUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiU). A felony. Cripes, get a clue, can’t you? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/39 "2008-09-04T16:27:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, genius, [conspiracy to commit riot in the second degree in furtherance of terrorism](http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/27840409.html?elr=KArks8c7PaP3E77K_3c::D3aDhUec7PaP3E77K_0c::D3aDhUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiU). A felony. > > Cripes, get a clue, can’t you? > > Regards, > Shodan You’re being ironic, I hope. They were meeting to plan a protest! According to your own cite, no one was charged with a felony riot. 27 of the cases were dismissed outright and in 44 cases, charges weren’t even brought. Surely you don’t actually believe this was about curtailing “terrorist” activities? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703/40 "2008-09-04T16:35:20Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > You’re being ironic, I hope. They were meeting to plan a protest! > [@](#): > > A 23-year-old Michigan man allegedly plotted to set off a homemade bomb in the tunnels near the Xcel Energy Center, hoping it would cause a power outage and lead officials to call off the Republican National Convention, according to charges filed in federal court in Minneapolis. [Cite.](http://www.startribune.com/politics/27822549.html?elr=KArks:DCiUoaW_eEO7UiacyKUU) This is your definition of “protest”? > [@](#): > > According to your own cite, no one was charged with a felony riot. > [@](#): > > The adults face charges including obstruction of legal process, criminal damage to property **and riot**. Maybe **gonzomax** can share his clue with you. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-now-host-and-producers-arrested-at-republican-convention/461703.md?page=3)