# Democracy - The example of Switzerland **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 8, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-the-example-of-switzerland/528158 "2010-02-08T17:16:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-the-example-of-switzerland/528158/21 "2010-02-13T01:18:49Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Wouldn’t our hypothetical silly person be likelier to insist that “agenda” _is_ the plural form, and that one should probably refer to “the agendum of the meeting”? I suppose I should put more smileys in my posts to make clear when I’m making fun of an idea, rather than saying something seemingly stupid. :rolleyes: In English, words like agenda and data have been transformed from their original Latin forms (plurals) to fit the common usage by speakers of English. Agenda has become quite thoroughly singular, and data is well on the way (very few people bother to talk about an individual datum any more). There are other examples extant in our language. That’s the funny thing about language, it shifts with the time. We borrow words, and in the borrowing, we make them our own. In the process, we often manage to change the word in some way. Many people consider the plural of octopus to be octopuses, not octopi. Then, there are those who try to apply foreign pluralizations incorrectly (such as by taking **any** word ending in -us and making the plural be -i). In the process, the “correct” pluralization will often change. You make a big deal out of Latin pluralizations, but I’m guessing you don’t bother to complain about all the improper examples of pluralization of French words, or German words we have borrowed, to say nothing of Greek words, or American Indian words, etc., etc., etc. Nor do I expect that you bother to _ **pronounce** _ your favorite little Latin words as they would be in Latin (if you use the soft “g” to say “agenda”, you’ve just acknowledged it isn’t a Latin word any more). So all this silliness about trying to assert that you can’t say “referendums” is just that, silliness. Pretty stupid silliness, at that. Makes you look like an idiot if you try it either with them as know why you’re being silly, or with them as don’t. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-the-example-of-switzerland/528158/22 "2010-02-13T04:25:44Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > The plural of agenda is agendas. Only someone really silly would insist upon calling them agendae. No, only someone who was flat-out ignorant would do that. In Latin, “Agenda” is already the plural of “agendum”; in English, its meaning has shifted in such a way that a plural of “agenda” has become appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-the-example-of-switzerland/528158/23 "2010-02-13T04:46:58Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Nor do I expect that you bother to _ **pronounce** _ your favorite little Latin words as they would be in Latin (if you use the soft “g” to say “agenda”, you’ve just acknowledged it isn’t a Latin word any more). Depends on which version of Latin we are talking about. The G was palatalized in the third or fourth centuries, [according to this link](http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Latin/Grammar/Latin-Pronunciation-Syllable-Accent.html). So if we’re talking Late Latin or later (i.e. anything not Classical Latin), agenda is pronounced pretty much as we do today. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-the-example-of-switzerland/528158/24 "2010-02-13T05:51:03Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > No, only someone who was flat-out ignorant would do that. In Latin, “Agenda” is already the plural of “agendum”; in English, its meaning has shifted in such a way that a plural of “agenda” has become appropriate. Must I make the same point about this more than once? 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-the-example-of-switzerland/528158.md?page=1)