# Democrat Obstructionism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 23, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455 "2015-02-23T23:01:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/281 "2015-02-26T17:32:42Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Feel silly adding to a pile-on but since it was directed at me: the fact is that removing all illegals wouldn’t significantly change crime rates. Another fact is that Australia has illegals despite not even having a border to shut down. So you are proposing a massive amount of security spending just so you can have some illusions of being safer. I know you think you’re being the voice of stern reason but it reads to me as more chicken little thinking. Please stop using the word “illegal” as a noun. It dehumanizes people, and as such, it is only fit for use by people who are okay with viewing human beings as things. This has already been pointed out to **magellan01** , but he’s a shithead, so I’m not confident that he is redeemable. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/282 "2015-02-26T17:49:26Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > They wouldn’t come here if there aren’t jobs for them to do. Enforce the laws that make it illegal to hire illegal immigrants and the demand goes away. > > Or do you not want to punish the “job creators” who don’t create jobs? Ha. I’m all for login after the job creators first and being hard on them Send them to jail. Not only don’t I have a problem with that, I strongly advocate for it. As we do that, secure the border. Period. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/283 "2015-02-26T17:52:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Feel silly adding to a pile-on but since it was directed at me: the fact is that removing all illegals wouldn’t significantly change crime rates. Another fact is that Australia has illegals despite not even having a border to shut down. So you are proposing a massive amount of security spending just so you can have some illusions of being safer. I know you think you’re being the voice of stern reason but it reads to me as more chicken little thinking. Believe what you want. A country has the right to secure its border. When it means preventing a wave of unskilled workers flooding the market, making it harder on the unskilled workers we already have, they have an obligation to shut it down. The crime part is extra. Citizens in a country live with a social contract, and accepting that there will be some minimal degree of crime is part of that. Zero illegals should be adding to the statistics. ZERO. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/284 "2015-02-26T17:53:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That applies with exactly equal force to those here legally, including the native-born who commit **most** crimes in America, but what can you do that the police are not already doing? Have legal illegals roaming our streets. And when you do, guess what. Zero crimes will be committed by illegals. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/285 "2015-02-26T17:55:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Please stop using the word “illegal” as a noun. It dehumanizes people, and as such, it is only fit for use by people who are okay with viewing human beings as things. > > This has already been pointed out to **magellan01** , but he’s a shithead, so I’m not confident that he is redeemable. Fuck that. They are illegal aliens. If you think I feel any compunction whatsoever to coddle them, you are (as usual) sadly mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/286 "2015-02-26T17:55:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Ha. I’m all for login after the job creators first and being hard on them Send them to jail. Not only don’t I have a problem with that, I strongly advocate for it. As we do that, secure the border. Period. Then why isn’t that in your plan? Why is the focus always on the jobseekers and not those who lure them here? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/287 "2015-02-26T17:58:39Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Then why isn’t that in your plan? > Why is the focus always on the jobseekers and not those who lure them here? Who says it’s not? > [@](#): > > Step 1: give the job to people who have the will to do it. > > Step 2: give them the money they need to do it. > > Step 3: stay out of their way. > > Step 4: see Step 3. I you think I’m just throwing this in, go do a search and view my post on the subject. I’ve given detailed plans several times. And going after the employers is always at, or near, the top of the list. I do believe it is the single most effective thing we can be doing. But only if people start going to jail. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/288 "2015-02-26T18:57:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Believe what you want. A country has the right to secure its border. When it means preventing a wave of unskilled workers flooding the market, making it harder on the unskilled workers we already have . . . [But, it doesn’t.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Immigration_myths_and_facts#Immigrants_take_jobs_and_opportunity_away_from_Americans) > [@](#): > > **Immigrants take jobs and opportunity away from Americans** > > - The largest wave of immigration to the U.S. since the early 1900s coincided with the lowest national unemployment rate and fastest economic growth. Immigrant entrepreneurs create jobs for U.S. and foreign workers, and foreign-born students allow many U.S. graduate programs to keep their doors open. While there has been no comprehensive study done of immigrant-owned businesses, we have countless examples: in Silicon Valley, companies begun by Chinese and Indian immigrants generated more than $19.5 billion in sales and nearly 73,000 jobs in 2000.[6] > > - Illegal immigrants, as well as legal immigrants with little job skills or language skills often take the work seen by most Americans as “beneath them.” Janitorial services, crop pickers and garbage collectors need workers, and they do not find them from high-school-educated, English-speaking citizens. As a demonstration of this fact, in Georgia, a 2011 crackdown on illegal immigrants caused many to be deported and more to flee the state. This caused a _shortage_ of labor on the state’s farms, indicating that illegal immigrants in that state do not compete very much with Americans for jobs. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/289 "2015-02-26T18:58:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Have **legal illegals** roaming our streets. And when you do, guess what. Zero crimes will be committed by illegals. Exactly! Regularize the undocumented immigrants’ status! Glad we agree on something! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/290 "2015-02-26T18:59:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > As we do that, secure the border. Period. See post #275. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/291 "2015-02-26T19:38:21Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Please stop using the word **“illegal” as a noun. It dehumanizes people,** and as such, it is only fit for use by people who are okay with viewing human beings as things. > > This has already been pointed out to magellan01, \*\*but he’s a shithead, \*\*so I’m not confident that he is redeemable. So the term “illegal” dehumanizes people and is therefore unacceptable, but “shithead” does not dehumanize and is acceptable? Ever heard of hypocrisy? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/292 "2015-02-26T19:39:44Z")
Another idiot who thinks that pointing at people who are intolerant of intolerance is a real gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/293 "2015-02-26T19:43:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So the term “illegal” dehumanizes people and is therefore unacceptable, but “shithead” does not dehumanize and is acceptable? Just leaning in to say that what I’ve never heard anyone say is to call someone who wasn’t another human a shithead (well, maybe the occasional cat, but they don’t seem to care). It’s about as humanizing an insult as they come. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/294 "2015-02-26T19:45:59Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Just leaning in to say that what I’ve never heard anyone say is to call someone who wasn’t another human a shithead (well, maybe the occasional cat, but they don’t seem to care). It’s about as humanizing an insult as they come. True, but by that logic, people don’t usually call animals “illegals” either. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/295 "2015-02-26T19:55:07Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Another idiot who thinks that pointing at people who are intolerant of intolerance is a real gotcha. … and the Dutch! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/296 "2015-02-26T20:28:38Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Please stop using the word “illegal” as a noun. It dehumanizes people, and as such, it is only fit for use by people who are okay with viewing human beings as things. I prefer the term “impermissive immigrants.” Because they’re in the country without the required official permission. “Illegal” is inappropriate because people are not illegal; OTOH, “undocumented immigrants” makes it sound like the only problem is that they omitted to fill out some paperwork and all would be fine if they did. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/297 "2015-02-26T20:33:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Please stop using the word “illegal” as a noun. It dehumanizes people, and as such, it is only fit for use by people who are okay with viewing human beings as things. > > This has already been pointed out to **magellan01** , but he’s a shithead, so I’m not confident that he is redeemable. > [@magellan01](#): > > Fuck that. They are illegal aliens. If you think I feel any compunction whatsoever to coddle them, you are (as usual) sadly mistaken. Difficulty with reading for comprehension may not be a SURE sign of being a shithead, but it can be viewed as weak evidence in support of such a hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/298 "2015-02-26T20:42:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Bullshit. If the Dems would simply agree to do the sensible thing first, this would have been solved. And the sensible thing, since you are no doubt acquainted with such notions, is to secure the border. Lock it the fuck down. Once that it done, we can decide to regulate the spigot any way we see fit. . . . Bullshit back at you. Why should you get your half of the overall package first, but I have to wait – how long? – for mine? Comprehensive immigration reform is the way forward, because that way, both sides have to give something in order to get something. Your fantasy of “Pay me, and, later, I might pay you back, if I decide I want to, maybe, no promises” is bullshit. The Republican allergy to compromise shows their inability to govern. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/299 "2015-02-26T21:36:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … and the Dutch! [Threat or Menace?](http://studdblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/1973-dutchthreat-or-menace.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455/300 "2015-02-26T21:39:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Bullshit back at you. Why should you get your half of the overall package first, but I have to wait – how long? – for mine? More to the point, “lock down the border” is (1) certainly not the sort of thing to be conceded at all, now or later, in exchange for immigration reform, and (2) impossible, see post #275. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-obstructionism/713455.md?page=16)