# Democrat vs. democratic **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 2, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846 "2019-02-02T17:40:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/21 "2019-02-02T23:58:31Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Because it’s GQ… > > …Just doing my part to fight ignorance. That’s a fine GQ account of what a wiki is, but not how language works. You’re stating a personal opinion that “Wiki” _should_ not be used to mean “Wikipedia” in general usage, when the GQ empirical reality is that the usage is widespread. You haven’t even really stated any convincing _prescriptivist_ objection to it. Wikipedia has a dominant position, it’s used daily by many people, and it’s a long word with a lot of syllables - so it’s naturally going to tend to be abbreviated. In speech, it’s reasonable in a general context to assume that you’re talking specifically about Wikipedia if you say something like “a Wiki article” unless you specify otherwise. In writing the capitalization helps clarify the difference. Seems quite sensible to me. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/22 "2019-02-03T00:15:41Z")
Sorta like the meaning of “America” in the Common Speech. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/23 "2019-02-03T00:22:33Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Sorta like the meaning of “America” in the Common Speech. 🙂 The odd thing is that America is a subset of North America. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/24 "2019-02-03T01:32:48Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > That’s a fine GQ account of what a wiki is, but not how language works. You’re stating a personal opinion that “Wiki” _should_ not be used to mean “Wikipedia” in general usage, when the GQ empirical reality is that the usage is widespread. You have failed to make the case that it is referred to overwhelmingly as “Wiki” rather than “Wikipedia”. It’s your reality, and it’s not true because you state it is so. Where is your empirical evidence? A wiki is a particular thing, you can get wiki software and set up your own wiki (I’ve even done so in the past): > **[Wiki software](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki_software)** > > Wiki software (also known as a wiki engine or a wiki application) is collaborative software that runs a wiki, which allows the users to create and collaboratively edit pages or entries via a web browser. A wiki system is usually a web application that runs on one or more web servers. The content, including previous revisions, is usually stored in either a file system or a database. Wikis are a type of web content management system, and the most commonly supported off-the-shelf software that web h... Misusing the term because you think “everybody does it” on a board that seeks to give factual answers and educate people is counterproductive. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/25 "2019-02-03T02:27:47Z")
Perhaps we could actually discuss the subject? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/26 "2019-02-03T02:29:54Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You have failed to make the case that it is referred to overwhelmingly as “Wiki” rather than “Wikipedia”. It’s your reality, and it’s not true because you state it is so. Where is your empirical evidence? You’ve distorted my claim here to an irrelevant one, and I think you know that, because my _actual_ claim is rather obviously true. Why would one expression need to be “overwhelmingly” more common than an alternative in order for you to acknowledge that it’s common usage? Are we only allowed one way to say things in English? What I actually said was that the abbreviation was _widespread_ in common usage. If you insist on a cite: I just searched for Wiki/wiki (without cap sensitivity) in SDMB posts. Excluding this thread, there are 20 instances since 1/31. Unsurprisingly, in every case it’s used as an abbreviation for Wikipedia. > [@Atamasama](#): > > Misusing the term because you think “everybody does it” on a board that seeks to give factual answers and educate people is counterproductive. To say that it is “misuse” is begging the question. It might well be that in more technical contexts the abbreviation is prescriptively deprecated. I don’t dispute that - it appears in Wikipedia’s own usage guidelines. And you’re perfectly welcome to express your prescriptive _opinion_ that the abbreviation is unwelcome in general non-technical usage too. I might even be talked around to your opinion, if you can make a case. But you still haven’t given any justification for that view. Care to respond to what I said here (and I’m talking about general, non-technical contexts): > [@Riemann](#): > > You haven’t even really stated any convincing _prescriptivist_ objection to it. Wikipedia has a dominant position, it’s used daily by many people, and it’s a long word with a lot of syllables - so it’s naturally going to tend to be abbreviated. In speech, it’s reasonable in a general context to assume that you’re talking specifically about Wikipedia if you say something like “a Wiki article” unless you specify otherwise. In writing the capitalization helps clarify the difference. Seems quite sensible to me. But in any event, what is “correct” in a language is not determined by your personal prescriptive preferences or mine, it’s determined by empirical consensus usage. As a GQ matter, the objective state of the English language is that Wiki is a very commonly used abbreviation for Wikipedia. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/27 "2019-02-03T02:43:39Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Sorta like the meaning of “America” in the Common Speech. 🙂 Except there’s no good replacement for “American” as a demonym: There’s Canadian and Mexican and… what? What else can we use for the people who live in The United States of America which has popular uptake? _Insisting upon_ or even _demanding_ nonce terms like “Usonian” or “United Statesian” makes you a fool, and suggesting that some countries not have demonyms is similarly idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/28 "2019-02-03T02:45:12Z")
**Riemann** : If “wiki” means “Wikipedia”, what do you call it when you set up your own wiki for internal purposes, like the company I work for does? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/29 "2019-02-03T02:59:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I once got pitted here for saying, ‘People can vote Democrat’. Apparently I was supposed to say they can vote Democratic. I’d be interested in seeing the context. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/30 "2019-02-03T03:29:19Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > **Riemann** : If “wiki” means “Wikipedia”, what do you call it when you set up your own wiki for internal purposes, like the company I work for does? I didn’t claim it _only_ means Wikipedia. I’m prepared to be convinced otherwise, but what’s your response to what I said in post #21? I’m always highly skeptical of the common prescriptivist claim that some novel usage will result in irresolvable ambiguity. In general conversation, most people most of the time refer to Wikipedia vastly more often than any other wiki. What’s the problem with assuming that it means Wikipedia unless otherwise specified or made clear by context? I mean, you just got the idea across quite easily. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/31 "2019-02-03T03:38:51Z")
We’ve had a number of threads on this in the past. I just posted about it the other day in a thread because I had just seen Fox news for the first time in years, and it struck me that one of the first talking heads spewing nonsense obviously made a point of using “Democrat Party”. I was a little surprised there are still people who apparently find it witty or cutting. I’ve found it a consistent rule of thumb that anyone who says that as a pejorative is probably not worth listening to. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/32 "2019-02-03T04:14:50Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I didn’t claim it _only_ means Wikipedia. I’m prepared to be convinced otherwise No you’re not. Because you’ve been presented evidence and ignored it. But this is GQ, and I’ve provided information. This isn’t GD and I’m not interested in violating forum rules. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/33 "2019-02-03T04:21:48Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > **Riemann** : If “wiki” means “Wikipedia”, what do you call it when you set up your own wiki for internal purposes, like the company I work for does? Maybe you could start your own thread on what is _to you_ no doubt a fascinating subject? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/34 "2019-02-03T04:42:57Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > We’ve had a number of threads on this in the past. I just posted about it the other day in a thread because I had just seen Fox news for the first time in years, and it struck me that one of the first talking heads spewing nonsense obviously made a point of using “Democrat Party”. I was a little surprised there are still people who apparently find it witty or cutting. There is one particular conservative poster on this board who regularly uses “Democrat Party,” and it’s pretty clear to me that he does so very intentionally. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/35 "2019-02-03T06:35:23Z")
Hmm. Most organization at the level of a national party are organized, incorporated, have registered name and trademark it etc. If the name is “The Democratic Party” then that’s the correct name. Common usage dictates what is an appropriate nickname. Frankly this is the first time I’ve noticed the distinction. I’m sure I’ve heard Democrat Party, I must have, but it’s never registered before; it just doesn’t sound right. I have heard members called (big D) Democrat’s, that’s common usage and an understandable abbreviation. BTW I’ve also heard America referred to in shorthand as The United States or “the US” despite IIRC there being a neighbor called “The United States of Mexico”. The fact that the founding fathers had either grand visions or lack of imagination leads to lack of alternative names. At least they didn’t jam together the individual names, I’m trying to imagine a 13 to 50 syllable version of a name like “Brangelina”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/36 "2019-02-03T07:02:10Z")
I used to write “Democrat Party” out of ignorance myself, but corrected this when I learned the correct term. What irritates are people who know that “Democrat Party” is an epithet and deliberately use it for that reason. There are at least a few Dopers who are corrected here at SDMB and then _deliberately_ continue to use the term. I think some have bragged that they do so precisely _to annoy_. It demonstrates something sad about their political affiliation when a key tenet of their “ideology” seems to be juvenile pranks intended to irritate adult Americans. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/37 "2019-02-03T07:38:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > . . . so using a noun as an adjective in a title is no big deal as far as I’m concerned. Using a noun to modify another noun is one of the most basic characteristics of English lexicon. The first noun (or the “adjunct noun”) functionally serves as an adjective, but the phrase as a whole is usually just referred to as a “compound noun.” (Whether the two words are written with a space–or hyphen–between them or not usually isn’t relevant here.) That said, this particular use of _democrat_ as a adjunct noun has a particular historical context, as cited above, which sets it apart. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/38 "2019-02-03T12:56:23Z")
[Moderating] Can we take the discussion of the word “wiki” to another thread, please? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/39 "2019-02-03T15:23:48Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The fact that the founding fathers had either grand visions or lack of imagination leads to lack of alternative names. At least they didn’t jam together the individual names, I’m trying to imagine a 13 to 50 syllable version of a name like “Brangelina”. Why do you hate HampMassRhodeConnYorkPennJerDelMarVirNocarSocarGeorge? ---
**Author:** ![ALOHA\_HATER](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@ALOHA\_HATER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ALOHA_HATER)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846/40 "2019-02-03T16:41:39Z")
Yes, it’s intentionally pejorative. Same form as when somebody uses “Jew” as an adjective. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-vs-democratic/828846.md?page=1)