# "Democrat" Zell Miller to Honour Swift Boat Vets?!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421 "2004-12-17T21:27:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/1 "2004-12-17T21:27:13Z")
[Here](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/wire/sns-ap-miller-swift-boat,1,1499710.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines): > [@](#): > > The American Conservative Union on Thursday announced it has tapped Sen. Zell Miller, D-Ga., to present the “Courage Under Fire” award to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth at the Conservative Political Action Conference’s Feb. 18 banquet. > > “The swift boat veterans performed an invaluable service to America,” Miller said in a statement. “These veterans took a lot of undeserved criticism for daring to speak the truth.” > > Official military records and even statements from Swift Boat veterans in Navy documents raised questions about their largely unsubstantiated claims, but the political damage had been done. The very same Zell Miller who [introduced John Kerry in March 2001](http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm): > [@](#): > > My job tonight is an easy one: to present to you one of this nation’s authentic heroes, one of this party’s best-known and greatest leaders - and a good friend. > > He was once a lieutenant governor - but he didn’t stay in that office 16 years, like someone else I know. It just took two years before the people of Massachusetts moved him into the United States Senate in 1984. > > In his 16 years in the Senate, John Kerry has fought against government waste and worked hard to bring some accountability to Washington. > > Early in his Senate career in 1986, John signed on to the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Deficit Reduction Bill, and he fought for balanced budgets before it was considered politically correct for Democrats to do so. > > John has worked to strengthen our military, reform public education, boost the economy and protect the environment. Business Week magazine named him one of the top pro-technology legislators and made him a member of its “Digital Dozen.” Flip-flopper or just flipped? This is the very same Zell Miller who is [joining Fox News](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64937-2004Dec14.html) as a political analyst. Why wasn’t this “zellout” kicked out of the Democratic Party? Why wasn’t he just kicked, by someone, anyone? Because this is the Pit: Fuck this shit. Fuck it to hell (or should that be _z_ell?)… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/2 "2004-12-17T21:39:00Z")
So, I guess you missed the part where Zell Miller was the keynote speaker at the Republican National Convention? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/3 "2004-12-17T21:40:57Z")
Zell Miller is a flip-flopper. Accordingly, I won’t vote for him for President, should he run. But I liked his RNC speech, and he did a lot of good with that speech for President Bush’s campaign. I’m happy about that, and I believe Miller spoke from his heart when he delivered that speech. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/4 "2004-12-17T22:06:02Z")
Zell Miller, like Alan Colmes, is the kind of Democrat Republicans point to as “honorable and respectable” – _e.g.,_ spineless lapdogs for the right. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/5 "2004-12-17T22:15:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m happy about that, and I believe Miller spoke from his heart when he delivered that speech. Pssst, wanna buy a bridge? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/6 "2004-12-17T22:15:44Z")
A man whose allegiance is rled by expedience. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/7 "2004-12-17T22:16:44Z")
This country _needs_ more duellists. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/8 "2004-12-17T22:17:38Z")
Eh, I don’t understand why people pay attention to Zell Miller. Yes, he’s a democrat. So? There are thousands of people just like him, conservative southern politicians, who left the democratic party and joined the republicans. Except they are now registered republicans, and “republican blasts democrats” isn’t a very interesting headline. If Zell Miller formally joined the Republican party there wouldn’t be any stories written about him. Which is why he hasn’t done it. Except he IS a republican, since he votes republican and supports republican candidates for office. The thing is, US political parties don’t really have provisions for “throwing someone out”. Anyone can call themselves whatever they want. I’m actually surprised this sort of thing doesn’t happen more often, people joining political parties or advocacy groups with the intention of causing mischief. The only one I can think of offhand is Dan Savage (the columnist) who became a republican convention delegate because he showed up to his local republican caucus and was the ONLY ONE PRESENT, so he nominated himself. So he went to the Washington State republican convention and tried to propose a plank in support of gay rights. Pretty amusing, actually. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/9 "2004-12-17T22:18:01Z")
“ruled” _“ruled”_ Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/10 "2004-12-17T22:26:45Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The thing is, US political parties don’t really have provisions for “throwing someone out”. Anyone can call themselves whatever they want. > > I’m actually surprised this sort of thing doesn’t happen more often, people joining political parties or advocacy groups with the intention of causing mischief. The only one I can think of offhand is Dan Savage (the columnist) who became a republican convention delegate because he showed up to his local republican caucus and was the ONLY ONE PRESENT, so he nominated himself. So he went to the Washington State republican convention and tried to propose a plank in support of gay rights. Pretty amusing, actually. This is very educational. I wonder aloud why democratic leaning people don’t join the Republican Party with the intent to do mischief. I WONDER ALOUD. CAN YOU HEAR ME? But really, there really should be provisions for this, don’tcha think? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/11 "2004-12-17T22:29:21Z")
So if I can somehow provoke Zell Miller into slapping me with a glove, I get to stick him with a knife and I don’t go to jail? Cool! “Now, alack, 'tis blade of steel 'Twixt gut and bladder, interposed!” _Drollius and Celebrix_, Act one, Scene 3 ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/12 "2004-12-17T22:39:01Z")
Fox News can point to their new “Democrat” staffer to defend their “balanced” news programs. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/13 "2004-12-17T23:01:22Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The thing is, US political parties don’t really have provisions for “throwing someone out”. Anyone can call themselves whatever they want… That’s pretty much true for voters, but it is NOT true of political candidates. As a Senator on the Democratic side, Minority Leader Tom Daschle could have thrown Zell out of the party, for all intents and purposes. That was never done. The Democratic establishment in Georgia could also have repudiated Miller, but that was never done. In short, Zell might have still called himself a Democrat, but if the Georgia Democrats and his Democratic Senate colleagues had repudiated him, he would have been, in effect, tossed out on his rear. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/14 "2004-12-17T23:02:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, I guess you missed the part where Zell Miller was the keynote speaker at the Republican National Convention? No, I didn’t miss that speech. However, I did miss this post first time around. I hate to ask, but given your username, is he a relative of yours? 😛 In any case, my broader point is that there might be a case for provisions within the parties to allow for kicking out members who fail to display any semblance of adherance to the principles of the party. Party loyalty is another question. If it is a case of the party not having any principles, this is yet another problem. Is this what we are looking at? FTR, I’m not a member of the Democratic party. But considering Sen. Millers actions that isn’t saying much. I repeat: There really should be provisions for this, don’tcha think? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/15 "2004-12-17T23:04:23Z")
> [@annaplurabelle](#): > > No, I didn’t miss that speech. However, I did miss this post first time around. > > I hate to ask, but given your username, is he a relative of yours? 😛 I know this is the Pit and all, but there are still some lines you don’t cross, you know? That’s really going too far. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/16 "2004-12-17T23:11:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I know this is the Pit and all, but there are still some lines you don’t cross, you know? That’s really going too far. You’re right, and I apologise. But embarassing relatives don’t mean much to me, in terms of insults. My grandfather was a fascist, if that makes you feel better. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/17 "2004-12-17T23:16:42Z")
> [@annaplurabelle](#): > > … > > Flip-flopper or just flipped? > … A little of column A and a _lot_ of column B. Seriously, has this guy always been this unstable (and I’m not just talking about his politics here)? During his time in the Senate, it seemed like this guy kept a relatively low profile as a moderately conservative Southern Democrat. Then, in the last couple years, he takes a sudden lurch rightward, makes a shrill speech at the GOP convention, and–with dead seriousness–challenges Chris Matthews to a duel on national TV. Now, he allies himself with a bitter group of liars who personally smeared his former “friend” Kerry and then hid behind the flag for cover. What’s caused all this hostility? It makes me wonder if Miller’s ever been examined recently for senility because he is in his 70’s and the signs are certainly there. ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/18 "2004-12-17T23:26:43Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > A little of column A and a _lot_ of column B. > > Seriously, has this guy always been this unstable (and I’m not just talking about his politics here)? During his time in the Senate, it seemed like this guy kept a relatively low profile as a moderately conservative Southern Democrat. Then, in the last couple years, he takes a sudden lurch rightward, makes a shrill speech at the GOP convention, and–with dead seriousness–challenges Chris Matthews to a duel on national TV. Now, he allies himself with a bitter group of liars who personally smeared his former “friend” Kerry and then hid behind the flag for cover. What’s caused all this hostility? It makes me wonder if Miller’s ever been examined recently for senility because he is in his 70’s and the signs are certainly there. Some radio personalities recently asked that same question here in Atlanta (or the ATL as the radio stations like to call it). I wonder myself. I remember Zell Miller as being a decent politician back in the day, but his behavior of late has been decidely strange IMO. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/19 "2004-12-18T00:17:56Z")
Voting Republican is an early sign of senility, I believe. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/20 "2004-12-18T01:14:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But I liked his RNC speech, and he did a lot of good with that speech for President Bush’s campaign. I’m happy about that, and I believe Miller spoke from his heart when he delivered that speech. He certainly didn’t speak from his brain, which was fully occupied with the being insane and all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421.md?page=2)