# "Democrat" Zell Miller to Honour Swift Boat Vets?!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421 "2004-12-17T21:27:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/21 "2004-12-18T02:30:00Z")
> [@annaplurabelle](#): > > This is very educational. > > I wonder aloud why democratic leaning people don’t join the Republican Party with the intent to do mischief. > > I WONDER ALOUD. CAN YOU HEAR ME? > > But really, there really should be provisions for this, don’tcha think? It’s a tit-for-tat type of thing. If Democrats did it, Republicans would retaliat in kind. Zell didn’t join the Democrats to do harm. His views weren’t all that different from a lot of other southern democrats back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/22 "2004-12-18T02:41:12Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > It’s a tit-for-tat type of thing. If Democrats did it, Republicans would retaliat in kind. Zell didn’t join the Democrats to do harm. His views weren’t all that different from a lot of other southern democrats back in the day. And then the Democrats lost the south when they began to abandon those views… Making me wonder why the Republican party of Lincoln then decided it was a good idea to pick up the people that the Democrats left behind… ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/23 "2004-12-18T02:42:07Z")
> [@annaplurabelle](#): > > I wonder aloud why democratic leaning people don’t join the Republican Party with the intent to do mischief. Because such a thing would be indefensible. It is possible that Miller had a change of heart in the later years of political life. That’s allowed. It’s more likely, IMO, that he took an opportunity to set hisself up with a high paying gig for when his service was over. That’s allowed, too. But none of us know for sure, either way. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/24 "2004-12-18T03:08:33Z")
And speaking of the swift bullshitters… there was a prolific conservative doper that made the asinine point, in a past discussion, that many swifters were risking their economical livelihoods by coming forward against Kerry, (so they must be saying the truth by golly!) just like Ollie North, I just knew the right would take care of such “brave” new actions and the “willing to risk it all” of the swifters. He said that the swifters were risking their economic livelihoods in a past discussion, I foresaw what the OP showed then, it is proof that what that conservative doper said then was lower than seahorse manure. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/25 "2004-12-18T03:10:06Z")
Miller apparently believes that he has remained true to the ideals of the Democratic party: > [@](#): > > What has happened to the party I’ve spent my life working in? I can remember when Democrats believed that it was the duty of America to fight for freedom over tyranny. It was Democratic President Harry Truman who pushed the Red Army out of Iran, who came to the aid of Greece when Communists threatened to overthrow it, who stared down the Soviet blockade of West Berlin by flying in supplies and saving the city. > > Time after time in our history, in the face of great danger, Democrats and Republicans worked together to ensure that freedom would not falter. > > But not today. > > Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today’s Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator. > > And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators. > > Tell that to the one-half of Europe that was freed because Franklin Roosevelt led an army of liberators, not occupiers. > > Tell that to the lower half of the Korean Peninsula that is free because Dwight Eisenhower commanded an army of liberators, not occupiers. > > Tell that to the half a billion men, women and children who are free today from the Poland to Siberia, because Ronald Reagan rebuilt a military of liberators, not occupiers. > > Never in the history of the world has any soldier sacrificed more for the freedom and liberty of total strangers than the American soldier. > > And, our soldiers don’t just give freedom abroad, they preserve it for us here at home. > > For it has been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. > > It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. > > It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest. > > It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives that protester the freedom he abuses to burn that flag. > > No one should dare to even think about being the commander in chief of this country if he doesn’t believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home. > > But don’t waste your breath telling that to the leaders of my party today. In their warped way of thinking, America is the problem, not the solution. They don’t believe there is any real danger in the world except that which America brings upon itself through our clumsy and misguided foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/26 "2004-12-18T03:21:10Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And then the Democrats lost the south when they began to abandon those views… > > Making me wonder why the Republican party of Lincoln then decided it was a good idea to pick up the people that the Democrats left behind… I’ve never known a political party that would ever turn down the vote of anyone, for any reason. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/27 "2004-12-18T03:31:44Z")
> [@](#): > > It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives that protester the freedom he abuses to burn that flag. Until the constitution is ammended so’s we can take away that freedom and throw his commie ass in jail. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/28 "2004-12-18T03:43:57Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’ve never known a political party that would ever turn down the vote of anyone, for any reason. [http://www.uncommonknowledge.org/800/807.html](http://www.uncommonknowledge.org/800/807.html) > [@](#): > > when Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act and turned to, I believe it was Bill Moyers, and said, “With this signature enacting this legislation into law, I believe we have just lost the South forever,” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/29 "2004-12-18T04:06:05Z")
Look at those poisonous words, **Bricker**. You know as well as I know there are no protestors burning flags, and even if there were, they would represent nothing more meaningful than one individual screwball. You know as well as I that this is nothing more than a venemous political slander. Shamelessly pandering to the worst instincts of the right. I’m surprised he left out references to hippy liberal college professors smoking LSD and injecting marijuana. He promotes ignorance, and promotes hate born of ignorance. And you damn well know it! And yet here you offer it, with admiring tones about its being “heartfelt”. Yes, I suppose it was heartfelt, I remember his dewlaps and venom sacs shaking with emotion, his black chicken eyes glowing with malice. Give us all hope. Tell us that you regard such soul-rotting demogoguery with nothing but contempt and disdain. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/30 "2004-12-18T05:48:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Give us all hope. Tell us that you regard such soul-rotting demogoguery with nothing but contempt and disdain. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/31 "2004-12-18T06:10:19Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > :rolleyes: :rolleyes: yourself. Zell Miller’s words quoted by Bricker are nothing more than an injunction to dissenters to shut up and not question the government’s actions in Iraq. The whole purpose of our form of government is that we get to challenge our leaders if we think they are making unwise decisions. Shutting down public discussion of governmental policy is inimical to the principles of self-governance that we supposedly built this country on. The conformity and blind allegiance you and Zell and **Bricker** would like to impose is absolutely antithetical to the spirit of freedom, independence, and downright cussedness that our nation supposedly embraces. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/32 "2004-12-18T06:12:57Z")
In addition, I strongly urge readers of this thread to read **Perilous Times: Free Speech in Wartime from the Sedition Act of 1798 to the War on Terrorism**. by Geoffrey R. Stone. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/33 "2004-12-18T06:59:25Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > :rolleyes: yourself. Zell Miller’s words quoted by Bricker are nothing more than an injunction to dissenters to shut up and not question the government’s actions in Iraq. Funny. I read a speech about how soldiers are liberators. Maybe this is one of those potato/potahto things. **The conformity and blind allegiance you and Zell and Bricker would like to impose is absolutely antithetical to the spirit of freedom, independence, and downright cussedness that our nation supposedly embraces.** Oh please. You don’t know the first thing about what I really believe (nor could you be bothered to find out, I suspect), because people like you leave no room for other opinions on these boards. If someone doesn’t tell you that they “regard such soul-rotting demogoguery [read: anything that doesn’t jive with _your_ politics] with nothing but contempt and disdain” you start foaming at the mouth. The former paragraph was a shining example. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/34 "2004-12-18T07:05:17Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Funny. I read a speech about how soldiers are liberators. . Funny. I read a speech about how democrats are ruining the country… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/35 "2004-12-18T13:52:26Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Funny. I read a speech about how soldiers are liberators. Maybe this is one of those potato/potahto things. Really? > [@](#): > > No one should dare to even think about being the commander in chief of this country if he doesn’t believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home. Potayto/potahto indeed. > [@](#): > > Oh please. You don’t know the first thing about what I really believe (nor could you be bothered to find out, I suspect), because people like you leave no room for other opinions on these boards. The worst my side will do is argue with you, but your party wants to enact laws to stifle criticism. > [@](#): > > If someone doesn’t tell you that they “regard such soul-rotting demogoguery [read: anything that doesn’t jive with _your_ politics] with nothing but contempt and disdain” you start foaming at the mouth. The former paragraph was a shining example. Criticism of your politics is not akin to “foaming at the mouth.” That you cannot understand this is sad. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/36 "2004-12-18T14:30:31Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > The worst my side will do is argue with you, but your party wants to enact laws to stifle criticism. If your side had the power… then they would pass laws, instead of [stealing newspapers](http://www.dailycampus.com/news/2003/02/28/News/Newspapers.Stolen.Across.Campus-382925.shtml) that print ideas they disagree with. My side IS in power. We control both houses of Congress and the White House, and have for the past four years. What laws have we passed that stifle criticism. And if you have an answer: SPECIFICALLY, what does that law do to stifile criticism? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/37 "2004-12-18T15:21:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If your side had the power… then they would pass laws, instead of [stealing newspapers](http://www.dailycampus.com/news/2003/02/28/News/Newspapers.Stolen.Across.Campus-382925.shtml) that print ideas they disagree with. > > My side IS in power. We control both houses of Congress and the White House, and have for the past four years. What laws have we passed that stifle criticism. > > And if you have an answer: SPECIFICALLY, what does that law do to stifile criticism? Gosh, **Bricker** , I’d think tha thte Bush regime’s principle that they can lock up americans and hold them without access to counsel would be quite enough. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/38 "2004-12-18T15:25:59Z")
My Goddess! Campus newspapers stolen! I had no idea! I am crushed with shame and remorse, I only hope I can wipe away the tears sufficiently so that I can see well enough to fill out this Republican Party registration form! Campus hijinks and skullduggery! Oh, the horror! The horror! In comparison, such trivia as poisonous slander of a candidate’s patriotism pales to nothing. Why didn’t you tell us about this ghastly scandal sooner, I should have rushed right out to publicly declare my undying loyalty to the Shining One, had I but known of such. Probably those lefty-hippy college professors again. How lucky we are to have such as Zell Miller and the Swifties, with their tireless devotion to half-truth and innuendo. And their noble supporters…wouldn’t want to deny you your fair share of credit, friend **Bricker**. But let me put it to you straight: do you really believe that Sen Kerry voted as he did with the intent of denying Our Heroes armor, weapons and ammunition? Are you truly this brain-dead, or do you merely suspend your critical facilities in service of a noble cause? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/39 "2004-12-18T15:52:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Are you truly this brain-dead, or do you merely suspend your critical facilities in service of a noble cause? Can’t it be both? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421/40 "2004-12-18T17:01:24Z")
The Democrats can’t throw him out- they wouldn’t dare risk alienating the people who hate Democrats. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrat-zell-miller-to-honour-swift-boat-vets/280421.md?page=3)