# Democratic Debates 7/30 & 7/31 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 30, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867 "2019-07-30T13:07:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/221 "2019-08-01T19:32:37Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > **For being such a boring MF** , Inslee is kind of fascinating as a candidate. I often count boring as a positive in a candidate - I mostly prefer policy wonks :p. Sadly, I get that the electorate as a whole does not. Ah, well - at this point, barring a catastrophic fumble, I think a Biden presidential candidacy is starting to approach inevitability. Not my preference, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/222 "2019-08-01T19:41:55Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > This is quite delusional. In what way are they going to ‘Eat him alive?’ Republicans consider [Bernie] and Warren their greatest threat. No, please, don’t throw me in that briar patch! ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/223 "2019-08-01T19:49:51Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I often count boring as a positive in a candidate - I mostly prefer policy wonks :p. Sadly, I get that the electorate as a whole does not. > > Ah, well - at this point, barring a catastrophic fumble, I think a Biden presidential candidacy is starting to approach inevitability. Not my preference, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. I’m not ready to go there yet. As he’s been in the lead since the beginning, I can understand such a view. But, assuming Warren, Sanders, and Harris stay at the top as they are now, I’d want to see where each’s supporters go when only one of them is left standing, being that they represent the more progressive wing of the Democratic party, while Biden is much closer to the center. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/224 "2019-08-01T19:54:14Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Ah, well - at this point, barring a catastrophic fumble, I think a Biden presidential candidacy is starting to approach inevitability. Not my preference, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. It was his to lose from the beginning, and I don’t see anyone ready enough for prime time to take it away from him. However, he is a gaffe machine and he is getting older. I wouldn’t describe him as feeble or having dementia, but he has lost a couple of steps. Harris is almost there, but she allowed herself to get flustered. You could tell that the attacks were working because she was in an unfamiliar position. As a prosecutor, she is used to attacking and she looked like an amateur when she got nailed. Booker is an Obama wanna-be, but he just is missing something. He, again, is almost there, but he seems like he just did a giant line of crank off of the podium ten seconds prior to answering any question. The dude is always amped up to the max and is exhausting to listen to. I’ll bet he would tell his doctor about his bowel movement that morning in the same anxiety filled way. Gillibrand is just a one trick pony: women, women, women, women having abortions, women. Biden nailed her and made her look terrible for bringing up his old op-ed. I was impressed with Tulsi Gabbard, but I think only her family has heard of her. And she’s just too damn nice to make it this cycle. Everyone but Biden has a fatal flaw. Biden is the only one that is ready. I don’t think that portends well for Dems because of his age. If Biden was 15 years younger, Trump should be scared. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/225 "2019-08-01T20:08:21Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > No, please, don’t throw me in that briar patch! Hahaha…why I do believe references of that sort are nigh on criminal these days. Pity. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/226 "2019-08-01T20:17:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not at all, in fact Russian trolls helped Bernie. > > The GOP would LOVE to see Sanders as the candidate. > > They consider **Biden** their greatest threat. > > It is very easy to figure this- who is getting the most attacks? Even here? (I am not sure if we have any Russian trolls, but I know we have a few GOPers). > > You dont think the kremlin could whip up a Communist Party ID card for Sanders? Maybe find some pics of him at a Commie rally in his past? By what percentage? 0.00001% or 0.0000000000000001%? Sanders is popular without Russian interference, Sanders is popular due to horrific policies such as a progressive tax rate on the rich or healthcare free at the point of use which all other developed nations have a version of. The Dems probably LOVED it when Trump won the primary, and then were subsequently horrified when he won. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/227 "2019-08-01T20:27:57Z")
Looking ahead, only [7 candidates have already qualified](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-debates-2019-dnc-debate-houston-september-democrats-who-qualify/) for the September round. It’s not going to be easy for any others to reach the hurdles, although O’Rourke has, granted. These might be your semifinalists for reals: Former Vice President Joe Biden New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg California Sen. Kamala Harris Former Texas Rep. Beto O’Rourke Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren Also, > [@](#): > > Businessman Andrew Yang and former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julian Castro have met the donor threshold as of this month but have not met the polling threshold. > Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar has met the polling threshold but need additional donors. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/228 "2019-08-01T23:10:10Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > But, assuming Warren, Sanders, and Harris stay at the top as they are now, I’d want to see where each’s supporters go when only one of them is left standing, being that they represent the more progressive wing of the Democratic party, while Biden is much closer to the center. That makes sense and no doubt that’s the hope. I’m just not sure that a.) a unified progressive wing will coalesce and b.) that all of them would unify behind one of these three. I mean I suspect Harris for example is getting some centrist support herself as a “moderate” ex-prosecutor. But you’re right I shouldn’t be so fatalistic, it’s still pretty early in the silly season. A lot could still change. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/229 "2019-08-01T23:22:23Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > … Also, I can’t remember who said it, but I really did not like, “We are gonna tax the hell out of the rich!” Please don’t run on that, it sounds like you are doing it for its own sake. How about, “We are going to pay as we go, and tax progressively”? Or some variation of that. I am no Grover Norquist, but there needs to be a solid reason to raise taxes. At this stage it’s still just a minority of American voters who are paying attention. And that minority tends to be of the type recently described as “woke Twitter.” These are the folks who are making donations and otherwise keeping these candidates afloat. So they are the ones being appealed to with bad-for-the-general positions such as “tax the hell out of the rich”; Woke Twitter loves that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/230 "2019-08-02T00:10:22Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > At this stage it’s still just a minority of American voters who are paying attention. And that minority tends to be of the type recently described as “woke Twitter.” These are the folks who are making donations and otherwise keeping these candidates afloat. > > So they are the ones being appealed to with bad-for-the-general positions such as “tax the hell out of the rich”; Woke Twitter loves that stuff. People watch highlights and commentary on the debates. If only woke twitter was paying attention, there would be zero movement in the polls after a debate. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/231 "2019-08-02T00:56:45Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > By what percentage? 0.00001% or 0.0000000000000001%? > … > > The Dems probably LOVED it when Trump won the primary, and then were subsequently horrified when he won. Maybe by nothing. But they did during 2016, it’s a fact. Yep. yep. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/232 "2019-08-02T01:01:57Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > No. It’s not. And no. We don’t. Tell that to Jimmy Carter, who served on nuclear submarines (but was not, I just discovered, a nuclear engineer). I grew up in Minnesota in the 1960s and 1970s, and I pronounce it nuk-u-lar, and I assume that is because most every one around me was saying it the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/233 "2019-08-02T01:18:02Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > People watch highlights and commentary on the debates. **If only woke twitter was paying attention** , there would be zero movement in the polls after a debate. > [@Sherrerd](#): > > At this stage it’s still just a minority of American voters who are paying attention. And that minority **tends to be of the type** recently described as “woke Twitter.” These are the folks who are making donations and otherwise keeping these candidates afloat. > > So they are the ones being appealed to with bad-for-the-general positions such as “tax the hell out of the rich”; Woke Twitter loves that stuff. My emphasis. I didn’t claim “only”. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/234 "2019-08-02T01:37:48Z")
I think my point still stands. If a significant number of people weren’t paying attention, we wouldn’t have seen the bumps and troughs that happened after the last debate. I don’t think they are super important, polling changes seem mostly transient, but a wide group of people must be paying attention. Otherwise, we must assume that pollsters are only contacting a minority that tends to be of the type recently described as “woke Twitter.” ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/235 "2019-08-02T01:41:06Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s not going to be easy for any others to reach the hurdles, although O’Rourke has, granted. Take it with a grain of salt, but Klobuchar’s campaign is saying she’s close on the fundraising piece. Since it’s number of donors not dollar totals she can still push the send me a dollar type campaign that some candidates have used. She could even go full Gillibrand and run a small donor pay for access lottery. (Gillibrand held a drawing from among donors to have a whiskey with her.) The poll requirement is harder to influence without a lot of cash to throw around. Unless someone back in the pack found an audience during this week’s debates they may well be done. We’ll see. If her campaign isn’t lying Klobuchar’s path to the Sept. debate probably isn’t that hard. I threw her a dollar today just to try and keep her on the debate stage. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/236 "2019-08-02T02:02:06Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > What the hell was that Joe 30303 thing that Biden mentioned at the end? Isn’t that the year that [everything we think do and say is in the pill we took today](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic)? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/237 "2019-08-02T02:26:48Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Bernie belongs in the Muppet Show balcony, not running for president. Republicans would eat him alive and spit out the bones. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > This is quite delusional. In what way are they going to ‘Eat him alive?’ Republicans consider him and Warren their greatest threat. You mean Bernie “honeymooned in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics where he sang _This Land Is Your Land, This Land Is My Land_ with his Soviet hosts” Sanders? The only Republican who doesn’t want to run against Bernie Sanders is a candidate for City Council in Berkeley, California. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/238 "2019-08-02T04:26:30Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > No. It’s not. And no. We don’t. > [@Folacin](#): > > Tell that to Jimmy Carter, who served on nuclear submarines (but was not, I just discovered, a nuclear engineer). Well, I served on nuclear submarines and _was_ actually a nuclear-trained engineer, and I don’t pronounce it that way. It’s pronounced /ˈn(y)o͞o-klē-ər/. The first two syllables of **nuclear** /ˈn(y)o͞o-klē-ər/ and **nucleus** /ˈn(y)o͞o-klē-əs/ are pronounced the same. The /yo͞o/ sound is simply not there in the second syllable in either word. > [@Folacin](#): > > I grew up in Minnesota in the 1960s and 1970s, and I pronounce it nuk-u-lar, and I assume that is because most every one around me was saying it the same way. Well, you’re all pronouncing it wrong, then. (Or to be charitable, you’re all using a nonstandard pronunciation.) The second /yo͞o/ in the nonstandard pronunciation likely arose by [metathesis](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metathesis). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/239 "2019-08-02T04:57:38Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Well, I served on nuclear submarines and _was_ actually a nuclear-trained engineer, and I don’t pronounce it that way. It’s pronounced /ˈn(y)o͞o-klē-ər/. > … As the preferred but not only pronunciation. Regional dialects are a thing. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867/240 "2019-08-02T05:09:40Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > You mean Bernie “honeymooned in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics where he sang _This Land Is Your Land, This Land Is My Land_ with his Soviet hosts” Sanders? > > The only Republican who doesn’t want to run against Bernie Sanders is a candidate for City Council in Berkeley, California. But as Bernie has explained many times, that’s fake news. He didn’t honeymoon in the Soviet Union, jeez. He just went to the Soviet Union with his wife immediately after his wedding and called it a “honeymoon” many times after that, until shortly before he ran for president when he set the record straight. It’s amazing, the lies the MSM will tell to try to stop progress in this country, and prop up the big banks or something. 😉 > [@BobLibDem](#): > > If he gets the nomination, the Republicans are going to paint a hammer and sickle on his forehead. He’s a self-identified socialist. Uneducated white male voters are going to cash their socialist Social Security checks, drive on the socialist roads to see a doctor using their socialist Medicare, take a crap into the socialist sewer system, and then go to the precinct to vote against socialism. It’s stupid as all hell, but so are they. Ayup. And then the Bernie backers will complain about the mainstream media selling them out, and also somehow the DNC and Democratic donors decided they would rather have Trump to preserve their Wall Street perqs, so they sacrificed Bernie, blah blah blah. Anything but admit that Bernie does the opposite of packaging progressive policies in a palatable way. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Does anyone other than Miss Manners think ex-Presidents are not properly addressed as “President”? Has any ex-President since Teddy Roosevelt wanted it that way? General usage \*is \*proper usage, as long as it’s respectful. This. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Gillibrand was an embarrassing mom on Xanax. LOL! I cringed so hard for those long moments while she tried to get it together after being surprised to be called on. What I kept thinking of, more than Gillibrand herself, is what her campaign staffers watching in the wings must have been thinking and saying to each other. > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > For being such a boring MF, Inslee is kind of fascinating as a candidate. He’s got good progressive successes under his belt, and Washington is really two entirely different states: semiarid climate & agricultural in the east, marine climate & shipping/transportation/metropolitan on the west; Nuclear and hydroelectric infrastructures. And it’s a border state 😃 . > > I have had quite enough of NYC belligerence. DeBlasio could be the best of Obama/Clinton/Kennedy, and that accent and swagger would drive me away. I don’t find him boring, and I think he is the best qualified candidate running. Not only does he have excellent executive experience, but he was in Congress for a while too so he knows the federal government. He is also a former jock who is very tall and imposing. I think he would be the safest bet to beat Trump, as long as he had a diverse running mate. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Stylistically, I think Booker is the best suited to take on Trump and win. He is smooth on his feet, he can hit his opponents hard and remain likable, he can verbally battle, and he’s physically huge (and shit like this matters to Trump). There’s just something I like about him, and I think his style could appeal to the midwestern blue collar households. I just think he focuses too much on stuff that’s meant to win the black vote in the primary, rather than the electoral vote in the general. And if he keeps on focusing on “race stuff,” he’s just creating the GOP’s talking points for them. I agree with you about both his pros and cons; however, I think he would pivot effectively in the general election. He would still visit black neighborhoods to drum up turnout, but the rhetoric we are hearing now would disappear, guaranteed. There are a number of candidates running who could be very good nominees, but almost all of them are mired in the low single digits. Democrats say beating Trump is the most important thing this year, but either they are not acting like it or they don’t really understand what that entails. :smack: > [@DrDeth](#): > > _Biden also struggled in several answers to spit out the right words at the right time. And he continued to stop himself in mid-thought and immediately stop talking when his time ran out. Add it all up and I believe that Biden wound up doing just enough to quiet – if not silence – questions about whether he is up to the job. That, plus Harris’ struggles, get the former vice president into the “win” column. Barely._ I’m glad someone in the media pointed this out. > [@asahi](#): > > It’s hard to know just how accurate it is, but if Google Trends are any indication, it appears that the 2nd debate was a flop compared to the previous night. None of the candidates generated much buzz. Interesting. This matches up with what I said to my wife immediately after the debate which was that it was the most boring of the four so far. > [@asahi](#): > > FWIW, the candidates who passed my eye test in terms of making the most of their speaking opportunities, I’d have to say that Gillibrand, Yang, and Gabbard earned that distinction. All three were given more speaking time and made the most of it. Gillibrand was especially impressive in terms of substance. Wait, what? Gillibrand stood out in passing your “eye test”? Are the letters on that test 10 feet tall? 😕 > [@asahi](#): > > Is it just me or is Castro doing a Barack Obama impersonation? He’s pausing and saying “Uh” just like Barry used to. I don’t see it, but my wife said the exact same thing! She will feel validated when I tell her this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-debates-7-30-7-31/837867.md?page=13)