# Democratic Madness, South Final: Harris/Klobuchar
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [February 18, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794 "2019-02-18T21:42:32Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/1 "2019-02-18T21:42:32Z")
Vote for one of these Democratic primary candidates:
---
### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/2 "2019-02-19T03:29:37Z")
A black liberal woman from CA is going to have trouble (or at least is easily attackable), but Klobuchar has already been tainted with the ‘mean boss’ brush, so I went with the one I felt was more electable.
---
### Author:  [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/3 "2019-02-19T03:52:23Z")
I like Harris better than I thought I would, but Klobuchar might be my top candidate at this point, so I went with her.
---
### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2019, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/4 "2019-02-19T04:07:27Z")
Harris. I think they are both phonies, but at least Harris pretends to be progressive.
---
### Author:  [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/5 "2019-02-19T04:59:07Z")
> [@Folacin](#):
>
> Klobuchar has already been tainted with the ‘mean boss’ brush, so I went with the one I felt was more electable.
Really? “MEAN BOSS?” I’d love an example of a man who was tarred with that brush and failed as a result. And not sexual harassers, but simply MEAN BOSS.
There aren’t any. Men are tough and decisive, demanding the best. Women are mean harpy shrew bitchy scolds.
Jesus fucking Christ. In 2019.
---
### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/6 "2019-02-19T05:27:04Z")
> [@choie](#):
>
> Really? “MEAN BOSS?” I’d love an example of a man who was tarred with that brush and failed as a result. And not sexual harassers, but simply MEAN BOSS.
>
> There aren’t any. Men are tough and decisive, demanding the best. Women are mean harpy shrew bitchy scolds.
>
> Jesus fucking Christ. In 2019.
Being abusive and disrespectful towards those who cannot fight back is a character flaw. So is emotional instability.
Richard Nixon was emotionally unstable. He used to get drunk and tell the military to nuke nations. The military ignored him.
Lots of us do not want an emotionally unstable person who doesn’t respect or value people beneath them in charge of the country. We already have that. No, Trump didn’t lose because he has those things but America is worse off because of it.
Also Klobuchar’s fake midwest charm is obnoxious to me. I don’t find it charming at all.
---
### Author:  [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2019, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/7 "2019-02-19T06:59:17Z")
Kamala Harris FTW!
---
### Author:  [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2019, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/8 "2019-02-19T10:19:51Z")
I am not happy with Harris being one of the Democrats who called by tweet what happened to Jussie Smollett an attempted modern day lynching and now she is going to wait for the truth. I don’t know if it’s because he is a friend of hers and that clouded her judgment at the time. Given her previous professions, she should have known better.
You put more separation between yourself and Trump in terms of sane leadership by waiting for facts or by delicately using conditional phrases in such a scenario. This is more helpful for real victims too. Much of the media cares more about being first to report something juicy than being accurate. I think Klobuchar understands this, is above it, and could be considered the most measured candidate from what we see on the surface. I absolutely don’t know who she is behind the scenes and will try to objectively evaluate anything relevant, which I haven’t done because it’s early.
---
### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/9 "2019-02-19T22:02:53Z")
> [@choie](#):
>
> Really? “MEAN BOSS?” I’d love an example of a man who was tarred with that brush and failed as a result. And not sexual harassers, but simply MEAN BOSS.
>
> There aren’t any. Men are tough and decisive, demanding the best. Women are mean harpy shrew bitchy scolds.
>
> Jesus fucking Christ. In 2019.
I’ve been arguing with my wife (who will be pissed that Hillary lost until the day she dies) that what Klobuchar is accused of wouldn’t have been considered that big a deal if a man did it. She disagrees with me.
I think I personally prefer Klobuchar, but the ‘bitchy woman’ thing is something that she will have to deal with.
And another reason (well four reasons) to pick Harris is Minnesota’s track record of losing nominations and/or elections (Stassen, McCarthy, Humphrey and Mondale).
---
### Author:  [@Pithily\_Effusive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pithily_Effusive)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/10 "2019-02-20T00:12:26Z")
no - _The Bern is on_.
---
### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/11 "2019-02-20T00:59:12Z")
> [@Folacin](#):
>
> I’ve been arguing with my wife (who will be pissed that Hillary lost until the day she dies) that what Klobuchar is accused of wouldn’t have been considered that big a deal if a man did it. She disagrees with me.
>
> I think I personally prefer Klobuchar, but the ‘bitchy woman’ thing is something that she will have to deal with.
>
> And another reason (well four reasons) to pick Harris is Minnesota’s track record of losing nominations and/or elections (Stassen, McCarthy, Humphrey and Mondale).
I’d like to think I treat both genders equally on this issue, but realistically I’m sure I’m guilty of some sexism on the issue.
However, an abusive boss to me implies many things, all bad.
1. Emotional instability and an inability to handle stress
2. An inability to attract and retain quality talent (people with talent and options generally move on to better jobs)
3. Incompetence at social intelligence
4. Cruelty and indifference to the weak and powerless
Overall, I think I’d be as opposed to a man doing this as a woman. But I’m sure there are some gender biases in there.
But I don’t get why some people are just writing this off as ‘worrying over nothing’. Its not nothing. If someone does the things above, that shows they may lack the temperament for president. When Donald Trump watches a fox news story critical of flag burning, and immediately tweets that flag burners should have their citizenship taken away that is a bad thing. When Nixon gets drunk and paranoid and trys to start a nuclear war that is a bad thing.
The only other men who seem to have been accused of the same are Trump & Nixon. I’m not sure which democrat males have been accused of the same, although I’m sure they are out there.
---
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/12 "2019-02-20T01:13:44Z")
Do we have any concrete details of what she did that was abusive, or is it just the vague “she was an abusive boss”?
---
### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/13 "2019-02-20T01:26:20Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> I’d like to think I treat both genders equally on this issue, but realistically I’m sure I’m guilty of some sexism on the issue.
>
> However, an abusive boss to me implies many things, all bad. …
Agreed. Abusive ≠ Tough. Stories of Steve Jobs being an abusive jerk as a boss did not serve him well. He got away with it only because he had major results under his belt. Klobuchar does not. Being a good president in particular means being able to run a team well. We currently have a crappy boss in charge and another one is not the best choice even if that bosses goals overlap with mine. We want someone who can manage people well.
Maybe “we” are more willing to call out a woman who is an abusive boss than a man who is, maybe we expect better from a woman as a matter of stereotypes, maybe. So, for example, Bernie Sanders has not suffered as greatly from [similar charges](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2015/09/03/sen-bernie-sanders-m-not-bad-boss/71648456/) that
> [@](#):
>
> characterized Sanders as a “rude, short-tempered and, occasionally, downright hostile” boss.
>
> “Though Sanders has spent much of his life fighting for working Vermonters, they say he mistreats the people working for him,” the story read.
But in my book _any_ abusive boss has a big strike against them as a presidential nominee. It speaks to a needed part of the skillset.
**Chronos** , [yes](https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/02/amy-klobuchar-treatment-of-staff-undermines-image/).
> [@](#):
>
> She demeaned and berated her staff almost daily, subjecting them to bouts of explosive rage and regular humiliation within the office, according to interviews and dozens of emails reviewed by BuzzFeed News.
>
> She yelled, threw papers, and sometimes even hurled objects; one aide was accidentally hit with a flying binder, according to someone who saw it happen, though the staffer said the senator did not intend to hit anyone with the binder when she threw it. “I cried. I cried, like, all the time,” said one former staffer.
>
> . . .Anything could set her temper off, they said, and it was often unpredictable . . . [including] minor grammar mistakes, the use of the word “community” in press releases, forgetting to pack the proper coat in her suitcase, failing to charge her iPad, and using staples . . . .
---
### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/14 "2019-02-20T02:30:13Z")
Didn’t know that about Sanders, that is disappointing.
And yes, abusive doesn’t mean the same as tough or effective. Maurice Hilleman was supposedly a very tough boss, but he invented 40 vaccines and had a very loyal staff.
Klobuchar just sounds like she is driving away all the talented people underneath her.
---
### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2019, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-madness-south-final-harris-klobuchar/829794/15 "2019-02-21T07:32:29Z")
I don’t feel at all confident in my sense of either of them, and they seem a lot alike politically. It’s hard to make a choice. Kamala is probably better in that she’s clever enough to see that she has to go way to the left.
But I voted for Amy. I picked the white lady with native-born parents this time, because I think Kamala is a little “too foreign” to lead a country that picks on Barack Obama & Ted Cruz as much as we seem to have done.