# Democratic National Convention to have Free Speech Zone **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2004, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565 "2004-07-17T10:26:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/1 "2004-07-17T10:26:48Z")
I learned of this from (of all places) the Daily Show. I knew that they usually yuck it up with comedic spin but that the essential story was usually true, so I checked it out. It wasn’t hard to find credible sources like [the Boston Globe](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/02/20/convention_plan_puts_protesters_blocks_away?mode=PF) to confirm that, sure enough, protesters will be herded away, not just out of sight and mind, but into an area that looks like an internment camp. Just like the Kent State University parking lot, where four students were murdered and nine others injured, the area is bounded on three sides by edifices, and then sealed with a chain-link fence (what the Daily Show called “decorative steel lattice”). Even the Bl(a)ck Tea Society is [up in arms](http://blackteasociety.org/calls/harassment.php) over this, and is claiming that Boston has compiled a list of “troublemakers”. I would like to call upon all those Dopers who rightly condemned the Republican use of this tactic to condemn this one as well. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/2 "2004-07-17T11:06:37Z")
If they keep up with this kind of crap, I’m voting for Nader in protest. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/3 "2004-07-17T11:47:36Z")
And this is the fault of the DNC how, exactly? > [@](#): > > [Hoping for the Best, Planning for the Worst > By Michael Blanding, AlterNet. > July 16, 2004.](http://www.alternet.org/election04/19253/) > > Even though police in Boston are working to accommodate protesters during the Democratic convention, there are signs that officers are planning for mass arrests. > > The permits have been signed, the free-speech zone has been cleared, and the fences are starting to rise. Boston is bracing itself for thousands of protesters that will descend upon the city for the Democratic National Convention. The city has promised to welcome demonstrators with open arms, anxious to avoid the clashes that have marred previous large-scale political events such as the Republican National Convention four years ago in Philadelphia and the Free Trade Area of the Americas Summit last November in Miami. > > But even as police have been upfront on their plans by working with groups such as the ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild (NLG), concerns persist about inadequate space to accommodate protesters at the convention hall, as well as other signs that police are planning for mass arrests and are preemptively harassing protesters coming to Boston. > > In response to civil libertarians’ concerns, police moved the “free-speech zone” to a location closer to the FleetCenter where the convention will be held, and have helped expedite permit requests. Even so, the current protest pen is still claustrophobic and cramped. It has only one small entrance and small two exits, one of them with only a five-foot clearance below elevated subway tracks. The area itself is only large enough to hold some 4,000 protesters, even though more than twice that many are expected to arrive. Protesters won’t have direct access to the FleetCenter either, but will have to address their concerns to delegates as they arrive at the bus terminal next to the zone. Two fences separated by 10 feet will prevent activists from handing out pamphlets or information. > > Police spokesman Lt. Kevin Foley, while admitting that the space isn’t perfect, claims that the area is the closest that protesters have ever been allowed to a major event such as this. “Taking into account post-9/11 security concerns, and Boston’s narrow street configurations, we’ve gone out of our way to accommodate protesters,” he says. Now the Boston police, who your cite coyly refers to as “convention organizers”, are apparently not on the best of terms with the DNC. > [@](#): > > [Boston Labor Dispute Awaits The Democratic Convention > By Jonathan Finer and Jeffrey H. Birnbaum > Washington Post Staff Writers > Saturday, July 17, 2004](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56224-2004Jul16.html) > > When Mayor Thomas M. Menino (D) welcomes delegates to the Democratic National Convention here, the chairman of the California delegation plans to stand up and walk out. > > Art Torres has asked the rest of his state’s 541 delegates, alternates and committee members to leave with him as a show of solidarity with Boston police and firefighters, who are locked in a bitter contract dispute with Menino that threatens to disrupt the convention. “I don’t know what other message to give to this mayor that workers who protect our lives deserve a contract,” Torres said. > > A week before 35,000 people begin arriving here, organizers insist the city is ready for the July 26 opening. Bumpy roads have been smoothed, lampposts painted, parks manicured. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge approved a vast security apparatus that will turn the convention site into a fortress and leave residents grappling with traffic jams, closed roads and other inconveniences. > > But concern is growing that the standoff between the unions and City Hall will not only embarrass the Democrats but also disrupt events inside and outside the convention hall and serve as a distraction for emergency workers that will compromise the safety of attendees at a time of heightened national alert. > > The more than 1,400 members of the Boston Police Patrolmen’s Association and Boston Firefighters Local 718, plan to protest every convention event the mayor hosts or attends. Their efforts will focus on the walkout during Menino’s opening speech July 26 and on picket lines outside the 29 official state welcoming parties at high-profile venues likely to draw big Democratic names. > > The unions have written to all the state delegations asking them not to cross their picket lines. The leaders of at least six – North Dakota, Maine, Missouri, Ohio, Tennessee and California, the nation’s largest – have said they will avoid picketed events and will encourage their delegates to do likewise, which has led organizers to contemplate cancellations. Ohio delegation chairman Dennis L. White wrote the police union this week that he and his staff are prepared to join the walkout on Menino. > > The police will also protest in City Hall Plaza on July 26, and smaller demonstrations are planned throughout the week. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/4 "2004-07-17T12:26:39Z")
I condemn the idea of free speech zones and I think you’ll find a careful reading of my posts on the subject will reveal that my condemnation of them is omnidirectional and without regard to political party or affiliation. So I take it I pass your little fucking purity test. Now what the fuck does the layout of Kent State’s parking lot have to do with anything? Are you suggesting somehow that the Massachusetts National Guard is going to be opening fire on the FSZ? Because that’s pretty fucking demented, even by your lunatic standards. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/5 "2004-07-17T12:28:33Z")
Those of you not familiar with Boston in general and the site of the DNC in particular may fail to grasp just how difficult it would be to accommodate the hordes of protesters headed our way, regardless of where any official protest sites might be located. The FleetCenter is surrounded by a jumble of narrow streets chockful of buildings, railroad lines, construction sites, and elevated light rail tracks. The only open space within yellshot is where the elevated expressway that was replaced by the Big Dig’s underground lanes has been cleared out, and the open area paved over. You’d have to go, oh, a 10+ minute walk away to find any decent open space (at City Hall Plaza) that could begin to accommodate protesters readily. Boston Common has been the site of many large protests in the past, and could handle what’s coming at us, but it’s a brisk 15-20 minutes walk away. Directly in front of the FleetCenter? Leaving lanes for delegates, media, etc. to get in and out? There’s room for a few hundred, maybe a thousand if they jam in like sardines. Crowd control is going to be a nightmare under the best of circumstances. The location of the protest site isn’t a matter of stifling dissent; it’s a matter of simple physical impossibility to host any huge demonstrations. I’m way more pissed at Mayor Menino for (a) not settling his city’s labor problems before going after the convention, and (b) siting it in the FleetCenter rather than in the city’s spanking new Convention Center, which has the room around it to accommodate large protests, and isn’t sitting smack dab athwart a major transportation hub. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/6 "2004-07-17T13:15:58Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Just like the Kent State University parking lot, where four students were murdered and nine others injured, the area is bounded on three sides by edifices, and then sealed with a chain-link fence… “Numerous city playgrounds found to be bounded on three sides by edifices, and then sealed with a chain-link fence! Children highly likely to be gunned down while playing on swings! Raise your voices in protest!!!” You’ll also notice that **Lib** has been very careful to avoid saying directly that the DNC is actually responsible for the creation of these “free speech zones.” He’s managed to leave the impression that they are, of course (“I would like to call upon all those Dopers who rightly condemned the Republican use of this tactic to condemn this one as well.”), but when confronted with the inevitable, “It’s the Boston police doing this, not the DNC,” he will respond with, “Now where, precisely, did I say that it was the DNC committing this outrage?” This OP is almost **decembrist**. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/7 "2004-07-17T13:32:48Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > This OP is almost **decembrist**. I’d leave out the “almost”. I especially liked this bit of the OP: > [@](#): > > Even the Bl(a)ck Tea Society is [up in arms](http://blackteasociety.org/calls/harassment.php) over this, and is claiming that Boston has compiled a list of “troublemakers”. Like the “Bl(a)ck Tea Society” was some group that everyone is familiar with and wouldn’t normally get involved in this sort of squabble. Now certainly _I’d_ never heard of them, but it’s not hard to find out who they are: > [@](#): > > [Greater Boston: DNC Protestors Await Permits > Originally broadcast June 22, 2004](http://greaterboston.tv/features/gb_20040622_dnc.html) > > Ellie Guillette has been an activist for about ten years. Now she is pounding the pavement for a local anarchist group called the Black Tea Society – a group formed last year to protest the DNC. “We sort of named it the Black Tea Society after the Boston Tea Party. So basically we feel like we’ve gotten to a point in this country where we have taxation without representation.” So it’s apparently a bunch of Libertarian loonies, _formed specificically to protest the DNC_, and like wow. _Even they_ are protesting. There’s a class of scum on this board so low that you can’t even name them. **Liberal** is a member of [that class](http://www.carlasceramics.com/ceramic-images/Twilly-Troll.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/8 "2004-07-17T13:54:19Z")
I lived in Boston half my life, I’m a Democrat, and I must agree that there really ARE no spaces to protest around the Fleet Center. The cops are not being obstructive, the layout of the city is. I don’t envy the cops or Menino or the DNC in finding a solution to this. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/9 "2004-07-17T14:52:36Z")
The FSZs are clearly more like Guantanamo than Kent State. Get your analogies right, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/10 "2004-07-17T15:27:12Z")
I agree that it’s reprehensible, if only for the Orwellian name, no matter who does it: Republicans, Democrats, police, Secret Service. Do I get some kind of Equanimity Prize for that, **Lib** , or were you pretty much just expecting that us hypocrite modern-day liberals would only see the absurdity in a ‘free speech zone’ if it were perpetrated by the other side? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/11 "2004-07-17T15:29:07Z")
A political party convention is a private event, not a public one. I can start my own “Cynic’s Party” right now and have a convention in my living room. That doesn’t mean I left to let a bunch of howling, jackass protestors into my house. A presidential appearance is an official public appearance on the state dime. It’s different. There is no hypocrisy. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/12 "2004-07-17T16:49:37Z")
> [@](#): > > _attempted hijack by Ravenman_ > > The FSZs are clearly more like Guantanamo than Kent State. I fail to see the connection. In honor of Jon Stewart, may I just say: _uh-whuhhh_? Kent State University, 34 years on, and we’ve learned a lot. I wrote a song about it. Like to hear it? Here it go: _Flex-cuffs and stun guns and vulcanized bullets with space-age materials, they cage us like pullets Free Speech is something I’ve heard of before hope they don’t make me go protest no more…_ Oh look, right on cue, it’s Desmostylus. With his bullhorn, why, he can play General Canterbury. Join the second verse, Desmo! _There’s nothing to see here, so move right along now, it’s for the right reasons, these people must kowtow, protestors make such a mess out of things can’t wait to see what the RNC brings!_ Let’s hear it, Hypocrats! I call for free-range Repugnicans, regardless of the venue. How 'bout you? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/13 "2004-07-17T17:10:31Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > A political party convention is a private event No, it’s not: > [@](#): > > Who pays for it? The Democratic Party (and the GOP) receives $15 million in taxpayer funds from the Federal Election Commission to pay convention costs. Remaining costs are picked up by the city. [http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4946006](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4946006) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/14 "2004-07-17T17:15:06Z")
Wow. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/15 "2004-07-17T17:20:04Z")
I see your “wow” and I raise you a “far out!” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/16 "2004-07-17T17:22:53Z")
Just gotta keep on truckin’. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/17 "2004-07-17T17:43:09Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > A political party convention is a private event, not a public one. I can start my own “Cynic’s Party” right now and have a convention in my living room. That doesn’t mean I left to let a bunch of howling, jackass protestors into my house. > > A presidential appearance is an official public appearance on the state dime. It’s different. There is no hypocrisy. Sorry. If public money makes the difference, then sorry, there’s a big problem here. After all, the Democratic convention if funded in large part by over $14 million in federal monies. This makes it not, strictly speaking, a private party, **Diogenes** , much as you might wish it so. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5032010/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5032010/) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/18 "2004-07-17T17:44:24Z")
Beaten to the punch, I see. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/19 "2004-07-17T17:51:40Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > or were you pretty much just expecting that us hypocrite modern-day liberals would only see the absurdity in a ‘free speech zone’ if it were perpetrated by the other side? Hee. Pretty funny that this post is right in the middle of a bunch of posts by prominent lefties on these boards doing just that. Excuses and assholes, people, excuses and assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565/20 "2004-07-17T18:05:45Z")
How did we manage to have conventions and speeches and such in the past without ‘Free Speech Zones’? What’s changed so that they are suddenly necessary, and it’s more important than at least the spirit of the 1st amendmant? I’m with **Gadarene** , I don’t give a fuck who’s doing them, it’s morally wrong, even if it is somehow judged Constitutional. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-national-convention-to-have-free-speech-zone/255565.md?page=2)