# Democratic or Democrat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2007, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594 "2007-01-26T18:08:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/21 "2007-01-26T20:09:42Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] The Vietnam War has been cemented into the Vietnam War by usage. But I know journalists here who argue over Iraq War versus Iraqi War. [/QUOTE] Yes, I know, the usage of both is common in modern English and of the noun modifier form versus the adjectival form and involve proper names. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/22 "2007-01-26T20:11:01Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] To reply by calling their party Repooplicans or the Asshole Party is to go overboard. Fight subtle with subtle. They lopped off our two letters, we’ll lop off two of theirs. They are the Publican Party. There, **Siam Sam** , I didn’t call your father and your uncles assholes. I called them Publicans, or as we say in these parts, Bartenders. 😃 [/QUOTE] All right, all right, I misunderstood the post, and I’ve been humbled. But I assure you that one uncle in particular would not object to being called a publican, because he WAS one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/23 "2007-01-26T20:15:57Z")
[QUOTE=harveyc] I also wanted to add and forgot … if the adjectival is proper, by some standard and use of capitalization, versus the noun modifier form, how do we reconcile the common use of the terms Iraq War and Vietnam War? [/QUOTE] I recall that for a long time the common term was the “Vietnamese War”. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/24 "2007-01-26T20:23:38Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] The Republicans use the phrase Democrat Party with the intent to demean our party in a subtle way. They’ll say there’s no harm in it, but the polling mentioned above shows that people think less of us when they drop the “ic.” To reply by calling their party Repooplicans or the Asshole Party is to go overboard. Fight subtle with subtle. They lopped off our two letters, we’ll lop off two of theirs. They are the Publican Party. There, **Siam Sam** , I didn’t call your father and your uncles assholes. I called them Publicans, or as we say in these parts, Bartenders. 😃 [/QUOTE] I don’t do subtle where political arguments are concerned. The point is that using the wrong form of the name is wrong, and if the Republicans can call the Democratic Party incorrectly, than any incorrect name for the Republican party is fair game. Though if you want subtle, call them The Repubican party. ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/25 "2007-01-26T20:24:56Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] I recall that for a long time the common term was the “Vietnamese War”. [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, I can’t, since I wasn’t around. However, searching “Vietnamese War” one gets 130,000 hits, “Veitnam War” results in over 2,000,000 hits. It appears the common usage in modern English is the noun modifier form. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/26 "2007-01-26T20:30:02Z")
I was around, but I honestly cannot remember it ever referred to as the Vietnamese War. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/27 "2007-01-26T20:35:41Z")
I see that many of the Vietnamese War hits refer to the Sino-Vietnamese War, too. I wonder, then, why it was the Spanish-American War and not the Spain-America War. Why the French and Indian war and not the France and Indian War. Never mind that those were the correct terms that were used. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/28 "2007-01-26T20:41:29Z")
Back in the 60s, it was generally “The War in Vietnam” for both the left and the right. “Vietnam War” was also used. But there was a difference (at least, in the early 60s). Most people – moderate and antiwar – pronounced it with three syllables: “Vee-et-nam” But those on the far right tended to pronounce it with two syllables: “VEET-nam.” This went on for several years; then shortly after I saw an article point out that, in Vietnamese, “Veet-nam” meant “dying duck,” everyone went to “Vee-et-nam.” ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/29 "2007-01-26T20:45:38Z")
[QUOTE=harveyc] I understand. Background: I used the term “democrat candidate” on another forum with no intent to demean Democrats. I was beat up and down on this. Numerous Democrats themselves use and for years have used the term democrat candidate in their campaigns, e.g. “Democrat Candidate for …” I was told they need better proofreaders. However, based on what I can see this violates no “rules” in modern English. I looking for some tangible basis as to why democrat cannot be used as a noun modifier in such terms as democrat candidate. [/QUOTE] I think you are going to have to admit you were wrong at the other forum. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/30 "2007-01-26T20:47:46Z")
[http://mediamatters.org/items/200701160004](http://mediamatters.org/items/200701160004) > [@](#): > > Bush frequently employs the “Democrat” slur when describing the Democratic Party or leadership. “Democrat” is now a “slur”? Seriously, overreacting like this just makes Democratics look really petty. Don’t you have more important things to worry about, like policing the use of “Oriental”? No doubt we’ll soon have a rule that “Democrat Party” can only be used in the Pit. :rolleyes: > [@AskNott](#): > > The Republicans use the phrase Democrat Party with the intent to demean our party in a subtle way. They’ll say there’s no harm in it, but the polling mentioned above shows that people think less of us when they drop the “ic.” So adopt it. Prove them wrong. Or do you have a concrete reason why you think “Democrat” is demeaning? Other than polls, that is. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > if Republicans can call the Democratic Party incorrectly, than any incorrect name for the Republican party is fair game. > > Though if you want subtle, call them The Repubican party. I’m puzzled as to why Democratics frequently associate Republicans with the groin area or elimination. Possibly some obsession of their own. Of course, as Nancy Pelosi said, “The gavel of the speaker of the House is in the hands of special interests, and now it will be in the hands of America’s children.” Looks like it isn’t just the Speaker’s gavel that the children got hold of. As for “fair game”, do you really want to go there? ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/31 "2007-01-26T20:48:11Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] I see that many of the Vietnamese War hits refer to the Sino-Vietnamese War, too. I wonder, then, why it was the Spanish-American War and not the Spain-America War. Why the French and Indian war and not the France and Indian War. Never mind that those were the correct terms that were used. [/QUOTE] I wondering if it is because the English was less modern at the time? Probably not a major factor though. The point is I don’t see, today, any clear cut standards that says the adjectival form is preferred to the noun modifier form. The only noun modifier usage argument not being acceptable today appears to apply to the noun democrat. ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/32 "2007-01-26T20:51:13Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] I think you are going to have to admit you were wrong at the other forum. [/QUOTE] I only used it once and did conform. 🙂 Still would like to get a clarification in a less emotional forum. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/33 "2007-01-26T20:52:19Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] Might as well call the other side “Repooplicans”\* if playground stuff is your thing. I’ve trademarked this to be on the safe side. [/QUOTE] I’m gonna start using this. Here’s a buck – that’ll cover, what, 20? 25? usages? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/34 "2007-01-26T20:53:21Z")
[QUOTE=rowrrbazzle] [http://mediamatters.org/items/200701160004](http://mediamatters.org/items/200701160004) So adopt it. Prove them wrong. Or do you have a concrete reason why you think “Democrat” is demeaning? Other than polls, that is. [/QUOTE] This has already been established and attributed. Why would polls be inadmissable? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/35 "2007-01-26T20:56:37Z")
[QUOTE=harveyc] However, searching “Vietnamese War” one gets 130,000 hits, “Veitnam War” results in over 2,000,000 hits. It appears the common usage in modern English is the noun modifier form. [/QUOTE] Let’s do the same for “democrat candidate” vs. “democratic candidate”: democrat = 265,000 democratic = 1,130,000 Or “democrat legislation” vs. “democrat legislation”: democrat = 1680 democratic = 35,300 Or “democrat party” vs. “democratic party”: democrat = 1,110,000 democratic = 13,800,000 The proper adjectival form is “Democratic”. It’s the most common usage by a huge margin and has been the standard since the Democratic Party came into existence. ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/36 "2007-01-26T20:59:42Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Let’s do the same for “democrat candidate” vs. “democratic candidate”: democrat = 265,000 democratic = 1,130,000 Or “democrat legislation” vs. “democrat legislation”: democrat = 1680 democratic = 35,300 Or “democrat party” vs. “democratic party”: democrat = 1,110,000 democratic = 13,800,000 The proper adjectival form is “Democratic”. It’s the most common usage by a huge margin and has been the standard since the Democratic Party came into existence. [/QUOTE] More, I see no clear cut usage patterns of the two forms … “democrat logo” – 26,900 “democratic logo” – 835 “democrat gifts” – 12,100 “democratic gifts” – 535 “democrat motion” – 9,120 “democratic motion” – 998 “democrat shirts” – 4,330 “democratic shirts” – 317 “democrat bill” – 163,000 “democratic bill” – 41,900 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/37 "2007-01-26T21:02:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Seriously, overreacting like this just makes Democratics look really petty. Refusing to use the proper name of the party is insulting. Why is this hard to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/38 "2007-01-26T21:03:10Z")
Most of those “Democrat Bill” hits are of the “Democrat Bill Clinton” or “Democrat Bill Richardson” type. Most of the “Democrat t-shirt” hits are of the " ‘Proud to be a Democrat’ t-shirt" type. (Where Democrat is not being used as a modifier.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/39 "2007-01-26T21:04:30Z")
With the exception of “bill” all of your examples are rare terms with very few Google hits, not a good basis for deriving standard usage. And, I’m sure you’re aware that the results of “democrat bill” are skewed by the huge number of hits for “Democrat Bill Clinton” … . ---
**Author:** ![harveyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e480ec/32.png) [@harveyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harveyc)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594/40 "2007-01-26T21:08:40Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Refusing to use the proper name of the party is insulting. Why is this hard to understand? [/QUOTE] I have already stated that I absoulutely agree with “Democratic Party.” I didn’t want that to be the issue here. I am trying to get a clarification as to why the noun, democrat, cannot be used as a noun modifier and that only the adjectival form must be used. Based on modern English it would appear that both are acceptable, as it is with all other nouns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-or-democrat/389594.md?page=3)