# Democratic Party Official Position is to Abolish ICE **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 15, 2026, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355 "2026-08-15T19:46:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/184 "2026-08-17T17:19:38Z")
Yes. If the message proposed can be misconstrued (usually deliberately) then, @Jasmine, what message about the subject would _not_ be misconstrued (deliberately or otherwise) by them? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/185 "2026-08-17T17:22:42Z")
Obama deports more immigrants than anyone. Republicans: Dems want open borders Biden deports more immigrants than Trump 1. Republicans: Dems want open borders It’s a Monday. Republicans: Dems want open borders etc., etc. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/186 "2026-08-17T17:23:31Z")
We need an operational definition of the term, “them”. “Them”, to me, represents the hard core right wingers that will vote dead red even if Satan was their candidate. That’s not what wins or loses elections, though. What wins or loses elections are the swing voters who are actually willing to listen to facts before they decide whom to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/187 "2026-08-17T17:25:03Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > What wins or loses elections are the swing voters who are actually willing to listen to facts before they decide whom to vote for. The ones who are willing to listen to facts aren’t the swing voters, because they didn’t vote for Trump. The swing voters are the ones who really are swayed by bumper stickers and slogans, and who don’t know that ICE used to have any other purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/188 "2026-08-17T17:26:52Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > We need an operational definition of the term, “them”. No. What we need is a bit more than “You can’t say that because it will be misconstrued by the right”. What, according to you, can be said that _won’t_ be misconstrued as much? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/189 "2026-08-17T17:28:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Were there calls at the end of WWII to convert the SS and/or Gestapo into a law abiding peaceful organization? No, but a lot of police were kept on and put into positions of power including those who were SS/Gestapo-adjacent. (Not sure why the preview is in German. The site comes up in English) > **[X/2025 - The Berlin Police after World War II](https://www.ghwk.de/en/press/newsletter/x/2025-the-berlin-police-after-world-war-ii)** > > Die Gedenkstätte dokumentiert die Wannsee-Konferenz und setzt sich mit Ausstellungen, Bildungsangeboten und einer Bibliothek mit dem Holocaust auseinander. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/190 "2026-08-17T17:32:23Z")
Exactly. The same with ICE. Keeping the organization around is a bad idea, mainly because it will be seen as a cosmetic change at best. The ones in the group that pass muster should be transferred to other divisions, and the much-tarnished group itself should be abolished. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/191 "2026-08-17T17:38:11Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > No, but a lot of police were kept on and put into positions of power including those who were SS/Gestapo-adjacent. > > (Not sure why the preview is in German. The site comes up in English) What didn’t happen is people saying, “The Gestapo were horrific, so let’s abolish the police.” They said, “Let’s replace the German government with the Allied Control Council, and replace the Gestapo with a police force that doesn’t commit atrocities.” > [@Chronos](#): > > If you say “Replace a light fixture”, you mean “put in something that does the same job as the light fixture, but better”. If you say “replace ICE”, you mean “put in something that does the same job as ICE, but better”. But the job that ICE does is terrorizing the populace. This last sentence isn’t exactly wrong–it’s what ICE does in practice–but I think it’s an unwise way to frame it. It’s equally true to say that ICE is failing at doing its job, and I think that framing is much better. To say that ICE is failing at doing its job raises the next question: what is the job that ICE is failing at? We can talk about how they’re failing at keeping communities safe, failing to focus on criminals, failing to hold themselves accountable to the law. We can talk about how the job should be to distinguish between violent criminals and those immigrants whose only issue is paperwork, and we can talk about how a proper immigration agency would be able to function. We can then talk about how immigration agencies functioned under Obama and Biden, and how they could function even better going forward–for example, if we can return to the Border Act of 2024 as a starting point for a bipartisan agreement, using the lessons we’ve learned since then. But replacing ICE will be a key feature of any move forward. Replacing them with an agency that does the proper job, not, obviously, replacing them with other terrorists. > [@Chronos](#): > > So “replace ICE” means “get something that’s even better at terrorizing the populace”. Come on, now. Nobody but nobody is going to hear Democrats say “Replace ICE” and sincerely think it means “Put another terrorist agency in their place.” That’s a semantic game you’re playing. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/192 "2026-08-17T17:54:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What didn’t happen is people saying, “The Gestapo were horrific, so let’s abolish the police.” They said, “Let’s replace the German government with the Allied Control Council, and replace the Gestapo with a police force that doesn’t commit atrocities.” They did abolish a bunch of things, though, like any national police force, and any organization that combines police and intelligence function. There were still various kinds of cops and things like BfV, but it is unconstitutional to have a Gestapo. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/193 "2026-08-17T17:57:41Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > They did abolish a bunch of things, though, like any national police force, and any organization that combines police and intelligence function. There were still various kinds of cops and things like BfV, but it is unconstitutional to have a Gestapo. Fair! I think it’s unworkable for us to go without an agency that handles immigration and customs enforcement (the fact that I’m personally somewhat in favor of open borders is another whole discussion and not relevant here), so I don’t think there’s the political will to abolish without replacement for these functions. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/194 "2026-08-17T18:01:55Z")
“We support a well-trained, effective, and professional border patrol agency. Clearly, ICE has failed that standard in every respect. We will create a new agency to protect our borders, uphold the law, and diligently serve our nation. Agents will be proud of their work, and won’t need to hide their faces or identity, or be ashamed of their actions. No longer will rouge masked agents terrorize our communities.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/195 "2026-08-17T18:06:00Z")
Other than the blush, I think that’s a fine restatement. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/196 "2026-08-17T18:08:27Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > No longer will rouge masked agents terrorize our communities. How about “…masked or otherwise facially disguised agents…”? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/197 "2026-08-17T18:18:32Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > So the lessons from “defund the police” aren’t that we should spend the next three years debating whether or not it’s a good slogan. It’s that the establishment is the _real_ problem here, and the establishment needs to go. > > Because the establishment really doesn’t want to “abolish ICE” at all. That’s _why they don’t support the slogan_. It’s as simple as that. So they will do the very same thing as they did with defund: throw out alternatives like “reform ICE” where their version of reform will be to just go back to the way it was a few years ago _that was still very very bad_. “The establishment needs to go” sounds to me like a hippie counterculture slogan from the 60s. I can agree to some extent with some of what you wrote, but overall it has that exact extremist, naive, and idealistic tone that Americans associate with the counterculture warriors of the 60s dropping acid during the “Summer of Love”. The point I’m making is that Democrats **need a winning political strategy** , and this is something that they’re very bad at, and that Republicans are very good at. This is why the US is in the trouble that it’s currently in. More naive idealism is the last thing the Democratic Party needs. It needs the kind of ruthless pragmatists that Republicans are so good at recruiting, except that Republicans always end up doing all the wrong things – especially in this disaster of a regime – while Democrats will hopefully do most of the right things, if only they could get elected. And “Abolish ICE” or “defund the police” are not the paths to electoral victory. The paths to victory are programs of positive reform, while by implication contrasting those programs with the horrifically corrupt, incompetent, and self-serving regime the current one is. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/198 "2026-08-17T18:30:25Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > That agency can be abolished and those job functions picked up by some new agency. ICE didn’t exist before 2003, and yet somehow those functions were done. By the INS, which was converted over into two agencies, one of which is ICE, Just a re-organization, > [@CaveMike](#): > > “Abolish ICE” is fine for now, for the midterms. Many people will know that the slogan effectively means “curb the excess”. Except that does not seem to be what the Dems called for. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Obama deports more immigrants than anyone. Republicans: Dems want open borders > Biden deports more immigrants than Trump 1. Republicans: Dems want open borders > It’s a Monday. Republicans: Dems want open borders Yeah. Both Obama and Biden used ICE properly. Deporting immigrants with criminal records- mostly. The Dems can cut back the Budget for ICE early next yeah. Then ICE will have to get rid of all those excess Agents and it will not be able to fund that kinds of raids it has been doing. Then if we have a Dem president in 2028, ICE can be re-organized out of existence, like what happened to INS. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/199 "2026-08-17T18:34:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Then if we have a Dem president in 2028, ICE can be re-organized out of existence, like what happened to INS. Abolish ICE?? The very idea! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/200 "2026-08-17T18:42:42Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Abolish ICE?? The very idea! Nothing quite so simplistic, but in the end, that is what would happen. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/201 "2026-08-17T18:44:47Z")
So, that’s what they would do, and that’s what their base and many independent voters want them to do, but the important thing is not to mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/202 "2026-08-17T18:47:52Z")
Bravo. I think that would satisfy both the “reform ICE” and “abolish ICE” cohorts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355/203 "2026-08-17T18:52:22Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > So, that’s what they would do, and that’s what their base and many independent voters want them to do, but the important thing is not to mention it. Because there is a large difference in public perception between taking some money from the Police budget and using it for mental health issues, as opposed to “defund the Police”. Read here, some posters want all ICE personnel to be fired and/or arrested, leaving nothing to perform those duties ICE did under Biden and Obama. That is what many would call “Abolish ICE”. As several have said “Abolish ICE” is nearly as bad as “Defund the Police”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democratic-party-official-position-is-to-abolish-ice/1032355.md?page=11)