# Democrats and Farrakhan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 8, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237 "2018-03-08T15:02:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/81 "2018-03-09T14:17:44Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Once there are also some people who support a candidate in spite of racist opinions and not because of them, then you can’t necessarily use support for a candidate, in and of itself, as an indication of support for his racism. > > If you have other indications, that’s something else. But if it’s just “you support so-and-so and he said such-and-such”, then that doesn’t follow. > > Of course, it does show at a minimum that you think that the guy’s racism is an acceptable price to pay for his other positions or qualities. So a lot would depend on the level of racism as balanced against other positions. If the guy’s racism is “bring back slavery” then it’s unlikely that other positions could overcome that. If the guy has said a few insensitive things here and there, then that’s something else. It doesn’t show support for racism necessarily, but it does show some level of tolerance for racism, which also warrants criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/82 "2018-03-09T14:20:19Z")
Agreed that it shows some level of tolerance. And you’re being consistent here, in that you’ve taken an absolutist position on this issue. But others have taken a softer stance, and my point applies from that perspective. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/83 "2018-03-09T15:36:43Z")
Liberals and lefties are human, they are just better at it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/84 "2018-03-09T15:44:45Z")
I look forward to everyone who criticized Obama for the increase in the debt during his term to fairly apply the same standard to Trump and not be shy about expressing themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/85 "2018-03-09T16:06:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I look forward to everyone who criticized Obama for the increase in the debt during his term to fairly apply the same standard to Trump and not be shy about expressing themselves. And I look forward to finding Jimmy Hoffa’s body buried in my back yard. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/86 "2018-03-09T19:29:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I look forward to everyone who criticized Obama for the increase in the debt during his term to fairly apply the same standard to Trump and not be shy about expressing themselves. The Republicans have completely abandoned fiscal conservatism, and their huge deficits are going to be a gigantic problem. They also seem to be abandoning free trade, which will cost the economy hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Unless it kicks off a trade war, which could easily trigger a deep recession. They should be ashamed of themselves. Trump is a blowhard who doesn’t know much about trade policy, but the Republicans in Congress should know better. Hell, the last time a Republican was President he tried steel tariffs, and he had to go back on it after disastrous results. So not only are Republicans violating their own stated philosophy, but they seem incapable of learning from their own recent history. How am I doing? Do I need to add some expletives for completeness? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/87 "2018-03-09T19:31:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They also seem to be abandoning free trade, which will cost the economy hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Unless it kicks off a trade war, which could easily trigger a deep recession. They should be ashamed of themselves. Trump is a blowhard who doesn’t know much about trade policy, but the Republicans in Congress should know better. Hell, the last time a Republican was President he tried steel tariffs, and he had to go back on it after disastrous results. So not only are Republicans violating their own stated philosophy, but they seem incapable of learning from their own recent history. How much power does Congress have regarding tariffs as compared to the president? My impression is that Trump can act unilaterally here. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/88 "2018-03-09T20:00:30Z")
Sure he can. And honestly, I was thinking more about the Republican base than Congress. A lot of Republicans in Congress expressed their disapproval, and Gary Cohn resigned over it. So there is at least some pushback. But the Republican base seems to be mostly in favor of the tariffs. If you push some of them on it, they’ll claim that they still support free trade, and that Trump’s tariffs are part of his mastermind plan and no one is smart enough to understand the game he’s playing, but they have faith in him. It’s delusional. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/89 "2018-03-09T20:03:20Z")
Who is “the Republican base” in this context? Do you mean the average Republican voter? The average Republican voter has no clue about economics and has never had a clue about economics and doesn’t now and has never had any position at all on free trade. (Very similar to the average Democratic voter in this regard.) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/90 "2018-03-09T20:47:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > How much power does Congress have regarding tariffs as compared to the president? My impression is that Trump can act unilaterally here. Simply repealing the law that gives him that authority would stop Trump in his tracks. [Relevant article.](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/07/heres-how-congress-can-stop-trumps-tariffs--if-lawmakers-want-to.html) The Constitution gives the power of regulating foreign trade to Congress, though they gave some of that away via the Trade Expansion Act. A simple law either repealing that authority or overturning the tariffs would be sufficient, should Congressional Republicans manage to buy enough steel to form a spine. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/91 "2018-03-10T20:53:32Z")
“So let me be clear: I reject, condemn and oppose Minister Farrakhan’s views and remarks regarding the Jewish people and the Jewish religion,” Davis said in his statement Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/92 "2018-03-10T22:29:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think OP makes a compelling argument which doesn’t require us to run to whataboutism or othersideism. > > I’d be interested in hearing if prominent Democratic leaders, like Waters and Ellison among others, do respond and address their position on Farrakhan’s long standing anti-semitic and trans-phobic rhetoric. > > What’s the calculus here I wonder on the Dem Pols side? Do they think that many AAs are anti-semites but vote overwhelmingly for Democrats so they don’t want to risk them not showing up to the polls if the Dem leaders denounce Farrakhan and those who support him? Farrakhan is a racists. But Democrats can’t public say certain things ( call him A David Duke type, but in reverse ), as their base won’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/93 "2018-03-10T22:35:45Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Farrakhan is a racists. But Democrats can’t public say certain things ( call him A David Duke type, but in reverse ), as their base won’t like it. Democrats don’t like Democrats calling racists racist? Wut? I thought that was a hallmark of the Democratic Party - calling everyone racists. I’m so far behind on the anti-liberal talking points, I might have to watch Fox & Friends. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/94 "2018-03-10T22:46:20Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Farrakhan is a racists. But Democrats can’t public say certain things ( call him A David Duke type, but in reverse ), as their base won’t like it. I’d personally call Farrakhan a bigot, myself, but it’s not an issue for “Democrats”. It may be an issue for a particular subset of Democrats. Similarly, there may be a particular subset of Republicans who cannot go out of their way to scorn David Duke (not really the reverse of Farrakhan, but no matter) because people who like David Duke (or David Duke types) are in those Republicans’ constituencies. America contains a lot of hateful people, as all countries do, so it’s not a major insight that people dependent on votes don’t succeed if they antagonize the hateful people. It’d be nice if there were viable third parties in the U.S. that could attract the votes of the stupid, allowing them to be ignored while moderates try to appeal to the saner, smarter electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/95 "2018-03-13T01:43:46Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Farrakhan is a racists. But Democrats can’t public say certain things ( call him A David Duke type, but in reverse ), as their base won’t like it. So if Democrats can’t condemn Farrakhan’s racism, why did Davis just do that? Any chance this new information will create a new thought in your head? Of course it won’t, because now you’re going to say that Davis didn’t really mean it. Still, there’s a difference between saying it but secretly not meaning it, and not saying it. Which is what you just said couldn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/96 "2018-03-14T19:18:33Z")
(I don’t know if it is too late to add this. And forgive me if I am taking the debate in a slightly different direction:). But comedian-cum-political-commentator Bill Maher doesn’t seem to buy into much of the liberal hypocrisy. He is a Democrat, a liberal [for the most part] and even a vegan. But he never hesitates to criticize Islam and Muslims like Farrakhan, when appropriate. But he is kind of a nut himself. And he is not welcome on most college campuses. I am a lifelong Democrat and a liberal. And I would never hesitate to criticize Farrakhan, when valid. But I am not your average liberal either. And I am distinctly different from Mr. Maher in many ways too. Now carry on with the discussion as you were 🙂 🙂 ;).) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/97 "2018-03-15T15:52:03Z")
Clarence Page weighs in: \*"I was darkly amused by the sorrow-sounding plea pinned to the top of Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan’s Twitter page earlier this week: “What have I done to make Jewish people hate me?” What, indeed? Where does one begin? Here, for example, are a few quick quotes from his speech to the Nation’s recent annual Saviours’ Day program in Chicago’s Wintrust Arena: The “powerful Jews,” he told the audience of thousands, “are my enemy.” The Jews are also “the mother and father of apartheid,” he said, and “responsible for all of this filth and degenerate behavior that Hollywood is putting out turning men into women and women into men” “Farrakhan has pulled the cover off the eyes of the Satanic Jew and I’m here to say your time is up, your world is through,” he said, getting thoroughly revved up. “You good Jews better separate because the satanic ones will take you to hell with them because that’s where they are headed.” That’s ironic. If my black American experience has taught me anything, it is how much minority groups resent being told how they’re the “good” ones who should separate themselves from the “bad” ones… The Daily Caller named seven U.S. House Democrats who the conservative site says have met with Farrakhan while in Congress: Rep. Danny Davis of Illinois, Reps. Maxine Waters and Barbara Lee of California, Rep. Andre Carson of Indiana, Rep. Keith Ellison of Minnesota, Rep. Gregory Meeks of New York and Rep. Al Green of Texas. Davis responded with two statements because his first one sounded too lame. But neither statement mentioned Farrakhan by name. Why such reluctance to condemn the same vile philosophy of hate that led to the slaughter of millions in Europe during the last century? The best explanation is the old political slogan: All politics is local. In the districts from which many of these black lawmakers come, the Nation of Islam often has a better reputation than Congress."\* > **[How Farrakhan kills the joy in identity politics](https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-perspec-page-farrakhan-jewish-anti-semitism-nation-islam-0314-20180313-story.html)** > > Why Tamika Mallory's association with Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam set off alarm bells. While this is correct, what Page does not address is the legacy of anti-Semitism that enables “admiration” for Farrakhan, or the need to not just denounce his bigoted ravings promptly, but to stop associating with him permanently. Other black leader embarrassed into renouncing Farrakhan (or at least his bigoted statements, back in 1991): [Clarence Thomas](https://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/13/us/despite-praising-farrakhan-in-1983-thomas-denies-anti-semitism.html). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/98 "2018-03-16T10:49:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Anti-Semitism is higher among AAs than among whites, but that’s not the real issue, I think. Cite? (For the anti-Semitism, not for the “don’t ask me for a cite because ‘it’s not the real issue’” part.) > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There are many AAs who are not themselves anti-Semitic but who admire Farrakhan for other positive things he’s done, and think his anti-Semitism should be overlooked. @ **Fotheringay-Phipps** - What positive things has Farrakhan done? I don’t fully understand OP. If we dislike someone’s speech or actions, we should say so? OK, but there’s only so many hours in a day; don’t we have a duty to spend some of those hours denouncing Hillary again? Let’s start with you, **Fotheringay-Phipps**. Is there any GOP politician or Trump Administration official whose speech or actions you disapprove of? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/99 "2018-03-16T11:31:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Let’s start with you, **Fotheringay-Phipps**. Is there any GOP politician or Trump Administration official whose speech or actions you disapprove of? I think a better question is: are there any whose speech and actions he _doesn’t_ disapprove of? Then we can look at those people’s speech and actions and assume that **F-P** must endorse them in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237/100 "2018-03-16T13:10:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Cite? From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American%E2%80%93Jewish_relations#Anti-Semitism_among_African_Americans) > [@](#): > > According to surveys begun in 1964 by the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish organization, African Americans are significantly more likely than white Americans to hold antisemitic beliefs. There is a strong correlation between higher education levels and the rejection of anti-Semitic stereotypes for all races. Black Americans of all education levels are significantly more likely than whites of the same education level to be anti-Semitic. > > In the 1998 survey, blacks (34%) were nearly four times as likely as whites (9%) to have answers that identified them as being of the most anti-Semitic category (those agreeing with at least 6 of 11 statements that were potentially or clearly antisemitic). Among blacks with no college education, 43% responded as the most anti-Semitic group (vs. 18% for the general population). This percentage fell to 27% among blacks with some college education, and 18% among blacks with a four-year college degree (vs. 5% for the general population). > [@septimus](#): > > What positive things has Farrakhan done? The details are insignificant. Point is that these people are not necessarily anti-Semitic themselves but admire Farrakhan anyway on other grounds. From the first article linked in the OP: > [@](#): > > In January, for example, Women’s March co-chair Carmen Perez told Refinery29: “In regards to Minister Farrakhan, I think that is a distraction.” She continued: “People need to understand the significant contributions that these individuals have made to Black and Brown people… There are no perfect leaders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-farrakhan/810237.md?page=6)