# Democrats and the "I told you so's" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866 "2005-10-25T19:49:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/1 "2005-10-25T19:49:44Z")
I am getting so sick of hearing from Democrats bashing at the Republicans and talknig about how the Republicans failed us in the past few years. I’d like to remind the Democrats out there “HEY YOU GUYS FAILED US TOO!” You bashed Kerry during the primary, but you made him seem like the second coming during the general election. In hindsight you know that he was never qualified. Liberals suffer under the constant problem of being unable to build a reasonable power structure to suit their ideals. Their organization is lacking and I don’t see this changing. Democrats in Congress supported the Iraq war, and now act like it was just the Republicans. I am tired of hearing from both sides of this bipartisan bullshit. Earth to the two party system: You BOTH SUCK! And to all you partisan hacks on this board. I’d like to not so gently remind you. “YOU DON’T BELONG TO EITHER PARTY YOU ARE THE MOB, THE PLEBES, THE PROLES!” Erek ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/2 "2005-10-25T19:57:27Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > In hindsight you know that he was never qualified. Compared to whom? > [@](#): > > Democrats in Congress supported the Iraq war A common fallacy. Have you ever actually read the resolution? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/3 "2005-10-25T20:00:35Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I am getting so sick of hearing from Democrats bashing at the Republicans and talknig about how the Republicans failed us in the past few years. Wouldn’t it be easier just to admit you were mistaken for believing in the Republicans, instead of projecting your own frustration elsewhere? > [@mswas](#): > > I’d like to remind the Democrats out there “HEY YOU GUYS FAILED US TOO!” Considering the Dems have been out of power during this time, I’m not sure what you’re expecting. > [@mswas](#): > > You bashed Kerry during the primary, but you made him seem like the second coming during the general election. In hindsight you know that he was never qualified. “Never qualified” compared to who? Compared to GWB, Kerry was a freakin’ genius. > [@mswas](#): > > Liberals suffer under the constant problem of being unable to build a reasonable power structure to suit their ideals. Their organization is lacking and I don’t see this changing. Yes, it’s one of the drawbacks when you’re _really_ trying to build a party that supports varying viewpoints. You can’t make people sign loyalty oaths at the door, you can’t get everyone to sing from the same hymnbook, and you sure as heck can’t get a core constituency of dittoheaded groupthinkers who will unquestioningly accept whatever you want to shovel out. The Democrats are stupid… but the Republicans are _evil._ At least “stupid” tends to be less destructive than “evil” is. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/4 "2005-10-25T20:01:05Z")
Now, I’m no big fan of the Dems over the last few years, but I do have to take issue with your point below. > [@mswas](#): > > You bashed Kerry during the primary, but you made him seem like the second coming during the general election. In hindsight you know that he was never qualified. That’s how the game is played during the primary season- I don’t know of a situation where this hasn’t been the case, for either party. And I’m not sure what you mean by Kerry not being qualified. A man to set hearts afire? One of the great orators of our time? No. Solid, reasonable, experienced, and having a good grasp of the geopolitical status of our country? Certainly. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/5 "2005-10-25T20:12:11Z")
> [@Roy Rogers](#): > > "I don’t belong to an organized political party. > > I’m a Democrat." … ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/6 "2005-10-25T20:20:46Z")
That’s Will Rogers. Roy was the cowboy. And, while I might be a member of “THE MOB, THE PLEBES, THE PROLES”, I was also a member of the New York State Democratic party from 1993-1999., and technically, I’m a member of the Democratic Party of Virginia now. > [@](#): > > The membership of the Democratic party of the State of New York shall consist of the duly enrolled Democrats within the State. > [@](#): > > Every resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia who believes in the principles of the Democratic Party is hereby declared to be a member of the Democratic Party of Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/7 "2005-10-25T20:32:02Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > The Democrats are stupid… but the Republicans are _evil._ At least “stupid” tends to be less destructive than “evil” is. “Stupid” can get you killed. Not a great alternative in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/8 "2005-10-25T20:45:20Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A common fallacy. Have you ever actually read the resolution? Is that not a misconception rather than a fallacy? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/9 "2005-10-25T20:49:12Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > “Stupid” can get you killed. Not a great alternative in my book. As of today, evil has officiallly gotten 2000 people\* killed in Iraq. I’ll take stupid if that’s the only other choice. - Counting only our own, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/10 "2005-10-25T20:50:09Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > The Democrats are stupid… but the Republicans are _evil._ At least “stupid” tends to be less destructive than “evil” is. Not when being stupid means letting the evil people run everything. They need to learn (or remember) how to win a presidential election. Bush was totally beatable both times, he didn’t bring much to the party in 2000, and Gore was running with the incumbent party during good economic times. Bush had a quagmire in Iraq, no WMD, and high gas prices in 2004, and Kerry let the entire thing become about his own war record. A record which was obviously way more impressive than Bush’s, but he still spent his days defending it! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/11 "2005-10-25T20:58:10Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > That’s Will Rogers. Roy was the cowboy. And, while I might be a member of “THE MOB, THE PLEBES, THE PROLES”, I was also a member of the New York State Democratic party from 1993-1999., and technically, I’m a member of the Democratic Party of Virginia now. So how many democratic candidates did you help put on the primary ballot between 1993-1999? I’m a registered Republican, but that doesn’t actually mean I am a member of the party. My friends were a lot of the people that the NYPD was inventing charges for, before they learned the power of digital cameras. > [@rjung](#): > > Wouldn’t it be easier just to admit you were mistaken for believing in the Republicans, instead of projecting your own frustration elsewhere? Nope because that would be lying. I never believed in the republicans. I think both sides are idiots. I think that the powers within the parties are either stupid, or selfish, and the people on the ground supporting them are just mislead by lack of long-term understanding. Erek ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/12 "2005-10-25T21:03:55Z")
Well, I tend to agree somewhat with the OP, at least as far as this constant back and forth bickering and finger pointing between the two parties goes. I see that the folks I figured would be up in arms about Dem bashing have already put in an appearence to prove the point so I’ll just let it go there myself. Whats a poor independant to do? 😉 > [@Mach Tuck](#): > > As of today, evil has officiallly gotten 2000 people\* killed in Iraq. I’ll take stupid if that’s the only other choice. How many did ‘stupid’ get killed in Vietnam? BTW, because of our two party system, it probably IS your only choice. Just don’t think that either choice is morally superior to the other because really its not. YMMV and all that. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/13 "2005-10-25T21:06:51Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > So how many democratic candidates did you help put on the primary ballot between 1993-1999? > > I’m a registered Republican, but that doesn’t actually mean I am a member of the party. My friends were a lot of the people that the NYPD was inventing charges for, before they learned the power of digital cameras. I’ve signed my share of party petitions. So, the answer is, a few. If you’re a registered Republican in New York State, you’re a member of the Republican party, no matter what problems your friends have with the NYPD. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/14 "2005-10-25T21:08:22Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > They need to learn (or remember) how to win a presidential election. Bush was totally beatable both times, he didn’t bring much to the party in 2000, and Gore was running with the incumbent party during good economic times. Bush had a quagmire in Iraq, no WMD, and high gas prices in 2004, and Kerry let the entire thing become about his own war record. A record which was obviously way more impressive than Bush’s, but he still spent his days defending it! No disagreement here. The Democrats suck at winning elections. However, one of their biggest problems in recent years is their inability to counter the Republican attack machine with effective counterattacks of their own. Which is why the OP’s point is stupid: if you’re going to blame the Democrats for not winning past elections and taking the reins away from this idiotic, incompetent administration, you can’t also demand that they stop pointing out all the administration’s fuckups. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/15 "2005-10-25T21:09:34Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I’ve signed my share of party petitions. So, the answer is, a few. > > If you’re a registered Republican in New York State, you’re a member of the Republican party, no matter what problems your friends have with the NYPD. If you think I am a party member because of a piece of paper I signed, it saddens me that you vote. Erek ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/16 "2005-10-25T21:11:27Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > No disagreement here. The Democrats suck at winning elections. However, one of their biggest problems in recent years is their inability to counter the Republican attack machine with effective counterattacks of their own. Which is why the OP’s point is stupid: if you’re going to blame the Democrats for not winning past elections and taking the reins away from this idiotic, incompetent administration, you can’t also demand that they stop pointing out all the administration’s fuckups. I agree about the Dems being ineffective, but actually I disagree about the conclusion you draw. Instead of yammering about what the Republican’s are doing wrong (admittedly a LONG ass list, that), focus on what you, the Dems will DO. I know, its a radical tactic, but maybe it would help win some elections (well, that and perhaps trying to actually appeal to the majority of real world American’s, instead of appealing to what you WISH were American’s). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/17 "2005-10-25T21:11:28Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I’d like to remind the Democrats out there “HEY YOU GUYS FAILED US TOO!” When you were composing this thread, did you think this was surprising? Clever? A rhetorical masterstroke? It just makes you look sad. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/18 "2005-10-25T21:12:00Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > No disagreement here. The Democrats suck at winning elections. However, one of their biggest problems in recent years is their inability to counter the Republican attack machine with effective counterattacks of their own. Which is why the OP’s point is stupid: if you’re going to blame the Democrats for not winning past elections and taking the reins away from this idiotic, incompetent administration, you can’t also demand that they stop pointing out all the administration’s fuckups. Don’t you love it when someone agrees with you but frames it as a contradiction? I am blaming the Democrats for going along with the mass hysteria following 9/11 and then claiming now that it wasn’t them at all, that it’s all the Republicans fault. They may not have had a controlling interest five years ago, but where were their dissenting votes? Where was their solidarity with civil libertarians showing that the country might be headed in a bad direction, but they were going to fight the good fight against it by god! I am not saying the Dems should have acted differently, I am just saying that they should fucking take responsibility for going with the status quo now that the wind is changing. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/19 "2005-10-25T21:13:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > When you were composing this thread, did you think this was surprising? Clever? A rhetorical masterstroke? It just makes you look sad. Bob Marley would have hated you. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866/20 "2005-10-25T21:13:44Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I am blaming the Democrats for going along with the mass hysteria following 9/11 and then claiming now that it wasn’t them at all, that it’s all the Republicans fault. They may not have had a controlling interest five years ago, but where were their dissenting votes? Well, who the fuck are “the Dem(ocrat)s,” in your estimation? Democrats in the government mostly went along with it. A lot of the Democrats here didn’t. So who are you talking to? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-and-the-i-told-you-sos/327866.md?page=2)