# Democrats are just as bad as Republicans (BobLibDem & Inigo Montoya standoff 😊 ) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 1, 2026, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746 "2026-09-01T17:48:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JDYanYan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jdyanyan/32/21663_2.png) [@JDYanYan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDYanYan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/21 "2026-09-01T19:20:56Z")
I got my college degree because a Democrat by the name of Tim Walz pushed for a GI Bill that not only paid for the cost of tuition, but offered a housing allowance. Now instead of working 12 hour shifts as a maintenance electrician, I work at a radiation therapy clinic for twice as much money. My wife has severe asthma, and did not leave the house once during 2020. Joe Biden distributed 200 million doses of the Covid vaccine in the time same amount of time it took Trump to distribute 500 thousand. Biden also created an American rescue plan that prioritized the bottom third of the country, bailed out union pensions, cut child poverty in half, drastically subsidized ACA, and marked a (very brief) moment where wealth disparity was actually starting to tick down. He also passed the most ambitious climate bill in world history, the first infrastructure bill in a generation, enshrined marriage equality, nominated the most qualified SCOTUS justice on the court, fought hard to keep mifepristone accessible, and was the first president ever to march on the picket line. I moved to Illinois from Texas because the supreme court of Texas ruled you weren’t allowed to abort a fetus when the life of the mother was at risk. Likewise in Ohio a 12 year old would be required to deliver their rapist’s baby. Since 2024 nearly half a million trans people have fled red states to blue states for their own safety. Democrats always need to keep improving, as we all do. But I can’t help but see a lot of people who lean towards “both parties bad” start with that conclusion and work backward. Frankly it feels like they are precisely the mealy mouthed unconcerned centrists that they pretend to hate. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/22 "2026-09-01T19:22:14Z")
Federal minimum wage hasn’t budged since 2009 and is still $7.25 per hour. College tuition is crushingly expensive. Raising children is exorbitantly costly. Health insurance companies and healthcare costs are still destroying patients. Student debt remains at $2 trillion. We are no closer to single-payer today than decades ago. And many high school students can barely even read. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/23 "2026-09-01T19:23:49Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The ACA is not universal health care. The key is the first A: “affordable,” not “free at the point of service.” “Universal” means “available to everyone”, not “free at the point of service”. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Re: student loans: one of the deals was that loans would be forgiven after ten years’ work in the public sector. But “public sector” didn’t include adjunct teaching at state colleges. That felt like a bait and switch: part-time gig work for the government is private sector? You kinda pivoted right past my question. Why did Biden go down the path he did with the student loans? What happened there? Do you know the answer? If not, how can you possibly declare that he didn’t do enough? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/24 "2026-09-01T19:24:16Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The issue there is your word “push.” When Democrats had control of government, they did not advance these agendas very far. I agree that their platform says more or less the right things, but my student loans were never reduced nor forgiven, I don’t have universal healthcare in the US, education is still woefully underfunded. I don’t have children or an American job, so I can’t speak to the other issues. Parties can change over time, though. When Democrats last had full control of the government, there wasn’t a consensus within the Democratic Party that we needed universal health care, and our majority was small enough that a few defectors (Sinema and Manchin) could effectively prevent the Party from carrying out its agenda. Now there is a wider consensus that we need Medicare for All, and a good chance that we could enjoy a large majority in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/25 "2026-09-01T19:28:07Z")
> [@JDYanYan](#): > > Since 2024 nearly half a million trans people have fled red states to blue states for their own safety. Yeah–in a few weeks, my trans niece is moving to Europe, explicitly and entirely because of the anti-trans horror in the US, and never plans to come back home. Please don’t tell me that both parties are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/26 "2026-09-01T19:29:13Z")
Nobody is saying both parties are the same. They both serve the same master, and that master is not the citizenry. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/27 "2026-09-01T19:30:10Z")
My loans were paid off by the time Biden was in office. It’s been an issue for a long, long, long time, and it’s directly tied to education funding. Who takes out loans in the first place, and why? Republicans are burning down the universities faster and more nastily, but I don’t see Democrats offering to fund them at the levels they saw up to the mid-80s, when the USA was building the system it is now coasting on. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/28 "2026-09-01T19:30:58Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > They both serve the same master, and that master is not the citizenry. Who exactly is this nebulous and shadowy “master”? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/29 "2026-09-01T19:36:04Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Nobody is saying both parties are the same. They both serve the same master, and that master is not the citizenry. It’s just not that simple. Part of the story is absolutely the stranglehold that wealth has over our political process, but that’s not the whole story; and “are just as bad” is dangerously simplistic language. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/30 "2026-09-01T19:45:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Federal minimum wage hasn’t budged since 2009 and is still $7.25 per hour. Taking this example, that’s true, and Democrats haven’t been able to move it because either they haven’t had the majorities necessary to get past filibusters or vetoes. But, looking at the state level, where they can be effective, they have increased the minimum wage. Democrats and Republicans aren’t just at the federal level. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/31 "2026-09-01T19:47:37Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Who exactly is this nebulous and shadowy “master”? The shape-shifting, blood-sucking lizard humanoids overlords, of course. đŸ€Ș🙀 > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I agree that their platform says more or less the right things, but my student loans were never reduced nor forgiven, Joe Biden managed to forgive over $180 billion for more than 5 million Americans. So wrong. And I am not in favor of across the board everyone gets their debt forgiven. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I don’t have universal healthcare in the US, The voters do not want it- > **[Most Americans say government has a responsibility to ensure health care...](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/12/10/most-americans-say-government-has-a-responsibility-to-ensure-health-care-coverage/)** > > Most Americans (66%) say the federal government has a responsibility to make sure all Americans have health care coverage. > 35% of all adults favor a single national health insurance system run by the government. Yes, the voters do want fixes to healthcare- > Most Americans (66%) say the federal government has a responsibility to make sure all Americans have health care coverage. But that is different than wanting UHC. A bare majority of Democrats even want UHC- > **Meanwhile, 90% of Democrats and Democratic leaners say the government has a responsibility to ensure coverage.** This includes 52% who say the government should run a single national insurance program > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The ACA is not universal health care. The key is the first A: “affordable,” not “free at the point of service.” Most nations with UHC included a co-pay. > [@Babale](#): > > “Universal” means “available to everyone”, not “free at the point of service”. Correct. > [@RitterSport](#): > > But, looking at the state level, where they can be effective, they have increased the minimum wage. CA Minimum wage is $16.90/hour. (there are exceptions, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/32 "2026-09-01T19:51:04Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Keep it civil. Well, that’s me out, then. ---
**Author:** ![JDYanYan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jdyanyan/32/21663_2.png) [@JDYanYan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDYanYan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/33 "2026-09-01T19:55:34Z")
It should be notable that Jeff Bezos, Larry Ellison, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and Peter Thiel spend millions upon millions of dollars helping one party and fighting the other. Like if Dems were just lapdogs of the upper class why did they use their very very narrow time with a super majority in congress establishing the consumer financial protection bureau and making it illegal for insurance to kick you off your plan for getting cancer? What if the media we consume, that’s owned by billionaires has us trained to be cynical about democrats specifically because that self fulfilling prophecy helps entrench their power? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/34 "2026-09-01T19:56:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > As long as MAGA exists, I cannot believe in bothsidesism. Problem is that MAGA will _always_ exist, albeit not necessarily under the same name/slogan. I’ve often reminded y’all that while both parties need to not exist\*, the Republican Party must go **first** , as, if the Democrats go first, the Republicans will be with us forever. Eliminate the Republican Party, and the Democratic Party will inevitably schism. What actually needs to happen is for the attitude that presently manifests as MAGAism to cease to exist. And I see no path forward to that outcome.đŸ„Č \*Republicans because they’re evil; Democrats because they’re ineffectual. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/35 "2026-09-01T20:01:08Z")
> [@JDYanYan](#): > > It should be notable that Jeff Bezos, Larry Ellison, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and Peter Thiel spend millions upon millions of dollars helping one party and fighting the other. Different parties do note- Bezos spent millions to help Dem candidates. He actively campaigned vs trump. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/36 "2026-09-01T20:09:49Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Who exactly is this nebulous and shadowy “master”? Anyone/thing from “Status quo that allows for the obscene monetization of congressional jobs” to “shape-shifting, blood-sucking lizard humanoids overlords”, depending on how much paranoia you like with your morning coffee. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/37 "2026-09-01T20:11:40Z")
Well said. There’s certainly a case to be made for [this meme](https://www.instagram.com/p/CXfPxFWggn7/), but
 well I suppose everyone in this thread is going to have specific examples, here’s mine. I’m currently changing careers into teaching, and I’m getting a crash course in how broken the system is for EVERYONE, but urban public schools are getting hit the hardest. Public schools are struggling, even in blue cities in blue states with decades of Democratic leadership. But if we’re triaging the wounds that are impacting public schools, #1 on the list is the Trump administration slashing federal grants and other funding streams that these schools have relied on for basic services like building subs and IS support. I’ll say this louder – Republicans have cut funding that they _knew_ would have dramatic generational impacts on the most vulnerable Americans. They did this because they have an ideological objection to public schools dating back to desegregation. They know their decisions would fuck over children, and if they cared about children they _might_ have given states and districts time to pass legislation or get funding from other sources. They did not, because they are evil. This is not a matter of incompetence and has nothing to do with Hanlon’s razor, because inaction was the easier path. They deliberately made decisions that would harm children because they are _evil_. Both sides are not the same. ---
**Author:** ![JDYanYan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jdyanyan/32/21663_2.png) [@JDYanYan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDYanYan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/38 "2026-09-01T20:12:54Z")
As far as I can tell Bezos has never directly donated to a Democratic campaign. He forms PACs which should be better understood as influence operations. But he did donate to Trump’s inauguration, Trump’s ballroom, spent millions on a Melania “documentary”, and personally intervened when the paper he owned was going to endorse Harris for president. Now Silicon Valley as a whole had a lot more “progressive” sensibilities in the 2010s. Tech workers are very very left leaning, and it wasn’t cool for VCs to go down a khole and call for a repeal of the 19th amendment back then. But it’s always been a scam. Sam Bankman-Fried was a major donor to Dems in the 2022 midterms. It was explicitly to curry their favor. Bad luck for him that Trump wasn’t in office or he could have made a “donation” for a pardon. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/39 "2026-09-01T20:14:05Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The ACA is not universal health care. The key is the first A: “affordable,” not “free at the point of service.” > > And yes, I know why. It doesn’t change the outcome. Other countries have managed since WWII. Case in point (admittedly different because universal healthcare doesn’t usually seem so cover dental issues): my teeth are in terrible condition, due largely to the fact that I won’t plunge myself into debt to the dental profession. I don’t deserve the debt, and the dentists don’t deserve to get stiffed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2026, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746/40 "2026-09-01T20:19:53Z")
> [@JDYanYan](#): > > As far as I can tell Bezos has never directly donated to a Democratic campaign. He forms PACs which should be better understood as influence operations. > **[Donor Lookup](https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=Jeff+Bezos+)** > [@JDYanYan](#): > > But he did donate to Trump’s inauguration, And Joe Bidens. > [@JDYanYan](#): > > Trump’s ballroom, Not that I can find- > **[Who are the private donors funding Trump’s White House ballroom?](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/10/24/who-are-the-private-donors-funding-trumps-white-house-ballroom)** > > White House releases list of donors funding $300m construction on the site of the demolished East Wing. > However, it seems that at least some of the donations are being made as part of deals struck with Trump over other issues. 
Last month, the Federal Trade Commission reached a settlement with Amazon over allegations that the multinational tech company founded by Jeff Bezos had enrolled millions of consumers to its streaming platform, Prime, without their consent and made it difficult to cancel the subscriptions. > > Under the settlement, Amazon will pay $2.5bn in penalties and refunds, fix its subscription process and undergo compliance monitoring. Also please note- Amazon is NOT Bezos. Bezos only owns 8% of Amazon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-are-just-as-bad-as-republicans-boblibdem-inigo-montoya-standoff/1032746.md?page=3)