# Democrats decide to work with Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 18, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307 "2016-11-18T04:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/1 "2016-11-18T04:16:14Z")
[http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/us/politics/democrats-house-senate.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/us/politics/democrats-house-senate.html?_r=0) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON — Congressional Democrats, divided and struggling for a path from the electoral wilderness, are constructing an agenda to align with many proposals of President-elect Donald J. Trump that put him at odds with his own party. > > On infrastructure spending, child tax credits, paid maternity leave and dismantling trade agreements, Democrats are looking for ways they can work with Mr. Trump and force Republican leaders to choose between their new president and their small-government, free-market principles. Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, elected Wednesday as the new Democratic minority leader, has spoken with Mr. Trump several times, and Democrats in coming weeks plan to announce populist economic and ethics initiatives they think Mr. Trump might like. > > Democrats, who lost the White House and made only nominal gains in the House and Senate, face a profound decision after last week’s stunning defeat: Make common cause where they can with Mr. Trump to try to win back the white, working-class voters he took from them, or resist at every turn, trying to rally their disparate coalition in hopes that discontent with an ineffectual new president will benefit them in 2018. IMO, it’s a smart strategy as long as it’s an actual strategy. The main risk is further dampening minority turnout in future elections because Democrats are legitimizing a racist. But if we assume that the next few elections will be decided by how working class whites vote, it’s the best strategy. The best part is that it doesn’t require Democrats to actually move to the right at all. It just means finding common ground with Trump on some issues while fighting him on others. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/2 "2016-11-18T04:19:03Z")
It seems like in effect we may actually have an independent President. Republicans and Democrats seem ready to compete to put legislation on his desk, and neither side can really be sure what he’ll sign and what he won’t. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/3 "2016-11-18T04:20:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It seems like in effect we may actually have an independent President. Republicans and Democrats seem ready to compete to put legislation on his desk, and neither side can really be sure what he’ll sign and what he won’t. Well, he never let anyone tell him what to do during the campaign. Why should he start taking advice now? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/4 "2016-11-18T04:23:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It seems like in effect we may actually have an independent President. Republicans and Democrats seem ready to compete to put legislation on his desk, and neither side can really be sure what he’ll sign and what he won’t. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Well, he never let anyone tell him what to do during the campaign. Why should he start taking advice now? These are the reasons I’m not so worried about him. I do figure that will all change before long, but for right now the cat is neither dead nor alive and it could go either way. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/5 "2016-11-18T04:50:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It seems like in effect we may actually have an independent President. Republicans and Democrats seem ready to compete to put legislation on his desk, and neither side can really be sure what he’ll sign and what he won’t. Trump’s only hope to avoid a disaster to his brand, family and presidential legacy is to be the middleman playing the two parties against each other. Too bad for the hardliners in the Republican Party that the most achievable and potentially legacy-building promises he made will require them to bend _a lot_ further toward the center than their opponents across the aisle. They may even be quoting Pyrrhus, come 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/6 "2016-11-18T04:59:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It seems like in effect we may actually have an independent President. Republicans and Democrats seem ready to compete to put legislation on his desk, and neither side can really be sure what he’ll sign and what he won’t. The problem for Democrats is they can’t put legislation on Trump’s desk. They’re going to be a minority in both halves of Congress. So before they can hope to win over Trump they need to win over some Republicans in Congress. And my guess is Congressional Republicans will see no reason to assist the Democrats, even if they agree with some of the Democratic proposals. ---
**Author:** ![OriginalGangster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea5d25/32.png) [@OriginalGangster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OriginalGangster)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/7 "2016-11-18T05:08:34Z")
Racism has always been strong in America. It always will be. People forget, there’s a lot of white trash in the US, probably the true overall majority. This year they showed up. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/8 "2016-11-18T05:20:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The problem for Democrats is they can’t put legislation on Trump’s desk. They’re going to be a minority in both halves of Congress. So before they can hope to win over Trump they need to win over some Republicans in Congress. And my guess is Congressional Republicans will see no reason to assist the Democrats, even if they agree with some of the Democratic proposals. They actually can put legislation on Trump’s desk if minority rights are respected as has been promised. Discharge petitions can get bills with majority support on the floor of the House, and Democrats only need two votes to pass legislation out of the Senate that Trump wants(assuming Pence doesn’t go rogue, which he might, then they need three.) There are ways, plus Trump has the bully pulpit. If he wants a bill, it probably comes up for a vote at the very least. Clinton got NAFTA to pass with more Republicans than Democrats even though Democrats controlled Congress, because although they wouldn’t support NAFTA, Democrats weren’t about to deny their own President an up or down vote. Republicans will probably feel the same pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/9 "2016-11-18T06:07:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They actually can put legislation on Trump’s desk if minority rights are respected as has been promised. Discharge petitions can get bills with majority support on the floor of the House, and Democrats only need two votes to pass legislation out of the Senate that Trump wants(assuming Pence doesn’t go rogue, which he might, then they need three.) > > There are ways, plus Trump has the bully pulpit. If he wants a bill, it probably comes up for a vote at the very least. Clinton got NAFTA to pass with more Republicans than Democrats even though Democrats controlled Congress, because although they wouldn’t support NAFTA, Democrats weren’t about to deny their own President an up or down vote. Republicans will probably feel the same pressure. While NAFTA was favored more by Republicans, it also had a substantial number of Democrats who supported it (besides Clinton). When it got brought to a vote, 102 Democrats voted in favor of it. (For that matter, 43 Republicans voted against it.) Discharge petitions are useful if it’s a handful of people in committees who are holding things up. But if you don’t have a majority on the floor, there’s no point in bringing a bill to a vote. Can you give an example of a proposal the Democrats might introduce that will get 23 Republicans to sign on? An infrastructure bill might be the best bet but if it comes down to it, the Republicans will just submit their own competing bill rather than support a Democratic bill. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/10 "2016-11-18T06:14:11Z")
That assumes Republicans can get their shit together well enough to even submit a competing bill. A majority in disarray is an opportunity for the minority, especially if Trump can get a few Republicans to be personally loyal to him. Industrial Midwestern Republicans are probably the ones who feel their fate is most closely tied to Trump’s success and will want to be able to run ads in 2018 about how they’ve fought for his priorities. Democrats obviously can’t get anything done solely by themselves, but if the President wants a bill, there will be enough Republicans supporting it to at least get a vote, and that’s where Democrats can amend legislation and get it through with mostly Democrats. Ryan can obviously invoke the Hastert rule, but that might draw him into open warfare with Trump again. Aside from infrastructure, Democrats will also get some Republicans for NAFTA reform. Down the road there are other opportunities. If Republicans drop the ball on health care reform, the President might decide that reforming ACA with Democrats is more fruitful. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/11 "2016-11-18T06:43:54Z")
Certainly appears that all the “honest conservative” Republican who weren’t going to follow Il Douche have decided to kiss the brown ring. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/12 "2016-11-18T06:49:16Z")
He’s been elected. That changes things. Until he loses us again, which seems likely. His priorities will differ from ours. House Republicans have little interest in taking up trade and only some in taking up infrastructure. They want to do ACA repeal and tax cuts first. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/13 "2016-11-18T07:24:23Z")
It’s smart. Either he goes with their stuff, and keeps his promises, or he publicly makes a big deal out of not keeping his promises. I don’t see a loss. And I don’t think there’s much risk of “being seen as working with Trump” being a bad thing, as who is going to spin that? The Republicans can’t. And the Democrats have no reason to. They can easily push the “we have to do what we can now” narrative. Once you’re actually forced to work with a narcissist, the guidelines go to butter him up considerably, while looking for a way to leave later before it harms your mental health. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/14 "2016-11-18T07:55:11Z")
> [@OriginalGangster](#): > > Racism has always been strong in America. It always will be. > > People forget, there’s a lot of white trash in the US, probably the true overall majority. This year they showed up. Odd. Billy-Bob Clinton always seemed the archetypal White Trash President. ---
**Author:** ![OriginalGangster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea5d25/32.png) [@OriginalGangster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OriginalGangster)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/15 "2016-11-18T08:41:56Z")
He wasn’t able to appeal to them the same way Drumpfft was. Very impressive move by Drumpfft, not easy to do. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/16 "2016-11-18T09:02:15Z")
For all the straw-clutching above (and I do understand the reason, I myself did it after Obama’s wins) the hard reality is that the Republicans are setting the agenda here and Trump is far more in line with them than the Democrats. His appointments are already showing his rightward thrust, the latest being General Mike Flynn as National Security Advisor, previously ditched by Obama for daring to tell the truth about Islamic terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/17 "2016-11-18T14:03:06Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > His appointments are already showing his rightward thrust, the latest being General Mike Flynn as National Security Advisor, previously ditched by Obama for daring to tell the truth about Islamic terrorism. Right… [Quote=New York Times] But many of those who worked with General Flynn attribute his firing to management problems, saying his attempts to overhaul the sprawling agency had left it a chaotic, backbiting mess. They also question whether his tactical acumen — he was especially good at unraveling militant networks in Afghanistan and Iraq — can translate into the kind of strategic thinking needed at the White House. “He is a very talented information gatherer,” said Sarah Chayes of the Carnegie Endowment in Washington, who worked with General Flynn when he ran military intelligence in Afghanistan from 2009 to 2011. “But his thinking process is not sufficiently analytical to test some streams against others and make sense of it, or draw consistent conclusions,” she said. “If you listen to him, in 10 minutes you’ll hear him contradict himself two or three times.” [/QUOTE] Sounds like his boss. Oh, and that’s not the only thing: [QUOTE=Mike Flynn’s Twitter Account, posted February 27, 2016] Fear of Muslims is RATIONAL: please forward this to others: the truth fears no questions… [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/18 "2016-11-18T14:07:41Z")
I don’t think they actually expect to be able to put bills on his desk, they just want him and Republicans to be seen fighting against things he promised. It’s win win really. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/19 "2016-11-18T14:50:44Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > … > Once you’re actually forced to work with a narcissist, the guidelines go to butter him up considerably, while looking for a way to leave later before it harms your mental health. Even if he’s not a textbook narcissist, he has enough narcissistic tendencies that it’s useful to keep them in mind. Now that he actually IS the P-word (I can’t write it out), he WILL want to make a success of it. This is the supreme achievement of his life, and he will not want to go down in history as a failure, or as the one P-word that half the country hated. He wants to “make America great again,” whatever the hell that means, and part of it is to be remembered with a sparkly halo over his head. He will be motivated to try to make Congress play nice, while keeping his campaign promises (if he can sort them out), and not pissing off all the people who voted against him. Tall order? Narcissists think they are God. I said earlier that he will be a puppet of the Republicans, but now I’m thinking not so much. He said he doesn’t read because he already knows everything.\* And he has also said that he thinks he’s smarter than all the generals, and I believe we can extrapolate that to Congressmen, too. > [@DigitalC](#): > > I don’t think they actually expect to be able to put bills on his desk, they just want him and Republicans to be seen fighting against things he promised. It’s win win really. I agree. If the Dems get something across, it’s a win. If the Pubs collapse into a mudpit wresting match, it’s a win for the Dems, too. \*Does anyone think there’s a remote chance that he can’t read? I’ve read about executives who make it to the top of their companies without knowing how to read, because they’ve become experts at faking it by a variety of strategies. My google-fu has failed on this topic, but I recall an article in the WSJ years ago among others. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307/20 "2016-11-18T15:12:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > IMO, it’s a smart strategy as long as it’s an actual strategy. The main risk is further dampening minority turnout in future elections because Democrats are legitimizing a racist. Considering that minorities didn’t turn out to stop Trump to this year, and that Trump just outperformed the last several Republicans among those who did vote, at this point this doesn’t seem to be much of a risk. Whatever anyone thinks of what Trump has said/done up till now, minorities aren’t voting as if they think Trump is uniquely racist. Trump has also said repeatedly that rebuilding the inner cities and gaining support of minorities is a priority of his. If the Dems are convinced that Trump will say/do things in the future that will make him be perceived as politically toxic, then all the more reason to work with him now, and get what they can get while they can get it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-decide-to-work-with-trump/772307.md?page=2)