# Democrats demand that Rove apologize or resign **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674 "2005-06-24T15:39:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/1 "2005-06-24T15:39:01Z")
The latest flap is over Karl Rove’s recent comments: “Liberals saw the savagery of the 9-11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers.” Conservatives, he said, “saw the savagery of 9-11 and the attacks and prepared for war.” From [http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/11974808.htm](http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/11974808.htm) White House press secretary Scott McClellan defended Rove, saying the president’s chief political adviser was “simply pointing out the different philosophies and different approaches when it comes to winning the war on terrorism.” Oh, is that all, Scott? Whew. I thought Rove might be deliberately trying to distort our Nation’s history in order to score political points. Certainly we all remember how divided this nation was after the 9/11 attacks, right? Everyone knows that only the Conservatives wanted to send troops to Afghanistan to take down Bin Laden and that the Liberals wanted to send psychologists to find out if Bin Laden had an Oedipus complex, right? McClellan’s quote shows that the White House is firmly supportive of this attempt to link the word “Liberal” to the idea “soft on terrorism.” I doubt this is the way to fight America’s enemies. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/2 "2005-06-24T15:44:22Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > The latest flap is over Karl Rove’s recent comments: > > “Liberals saw the savagery of the 9-11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers.” > > Conservatives, he said, “saw the savagery of 9-11 and the attacks and prepared for war.” I think he meant to say “Conservatives saw the savagery of 9-11 and the attacks and prepared for war with Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9-11.” ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/3 "2005-06-24T16:07:07Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > Oh, is that all, Scott? "Now hold on a second! I never said any such thing! " That was an out of context quote. Rove’s is not. I can not see how any supporter of Rove’s can defend this. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/4 "2005-06-24T16:09:10Z")
Forum? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/5 "2005-06-24T16:10:42Z")
Yes, this isn’t a real question. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/6 "2005-06-24T17:12:13Z")
Yes, my bad. I meant to put it in Great Debates. I have reported this and requested a move. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/7 "2005-06-24T17:13:44Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > Yes, my bad. I meant to put it in Great Debates. I have reported this and requested a move. > Sorry about that. Done. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/8 "2005-06-24T17:16:38Z")
Couldn’t he do both? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/9 "2005-06-24T17:19:27Z")
I know of no national politician who, following 9/11, was anything less than supportive of the desire to stand firm and strike at the terrorists with whatever force the President deemed necessary. Democrats and Republicans were united in this effort. I _do_, however, know of some liberals that were less than supportive, and urged paths that I would characterize as more “touchy-feely” than anything else. I would not call them policy-makers. Maya Angelou, Ward Churchill, and others of that stripe come to mind. When Mr. Rove said, “liberals,” was he talking about politicians or poets? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/10 "2005-06-24T17:22:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When Mr. Rove said, “liberals,” was he talking about politicians or poets? Poeticians. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/11 "2005-06-24T17:23:52Z")
> [@](#): > > “Liberals saw the savagery of the 9-11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers.” Well, ‘liberals’ is fairly vague. While I think its pretty much untrue that DEMOCRATS by and large seemed to hold the above attitude, I suppose its about on par with similar hyperbole as Gitmo is the ‘gulag of our time’. Its amusing that when hyperbole is used against ‘liberals’ they are up in arms…but when its used BY ‘liberals’ then its cool. Its nearly as amusing as when you substitute ‘conservative’ for 'liberal. No fan of Rove here…just saying. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/12 "2005-06-24T17:24:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When Mr. Rove said, “liberals,” was he talking about politicians or poets? He certainly wasn’t talking about conservatives who called it God’s punishment on America for tolerating Gays. ---
**Author:** ![initech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/439d5e/32.png) [@initech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/initech)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/13 "2005-06-24T17:29:34Z")
Excellent point, **Bricker.** I had assumed he was talking about political figures and matters of public policy. It’s obvious to me now that he was taking a much-needed stand against liberal poets. I, for one, think it’s high time we put some of these fuckers in their place. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/14 "2005-06-24T17:29:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When Mr. Rove said, “liberals,” was he talking about politicians or poets? Does it matter? If I say “Christians want gays ridiculed and harassed” would you object? 'Cause Fred Phelps is a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/15 "2005-06-24T17:34:58Z")
When I first read the quote I immediately thought of “[Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org)”. They were quick to be urging restraint right after the attack on 9/11. [From Drudge](http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050624/D8ATV99G0.html): > [@](#): > > Bartlett, appearing on morning news shows Friday, said that Rove was referring in his talk to [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org), a liberal group that has been identified with movie producer Michael Moore. > > “It’s somewhat puzzling why all these Democrats … who responded forcefully after 9-11, who voted to support President Bush’s pursuit of the war on terror, are now rallying to the defense of [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org), this liberal organization who put out a petition in the days after 9-11 and said that we ought not use military force in responding to 9-11,” Bartlett said on NBC’s “Today” show. “That is who Karl Rove cited in that speech … There is no need to apologize.” It seems like this was the case. His remarks were unwise. They fire up the left and unite them. However, they were not innacurate. No apology is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/16 "2005-06-24T17:34:59Z")
Rove did not limit himself to liberals. This is a lie being put out as spin by the White House today. He clearly listed Howard Dean and Dick Durbin in his remarks. Specifically, for example, he said: > [@](#): > > Let me just put this in fairly simple terms: Al Jazeera now broadcasts the words of Senator Durbin to the Mideast, certainly putting our troops in greater danger. No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals. I’ve made my feelings on Rove clear in the pit threads on the matter. I’ll spare you all my four lettered evaluation of his character. ---
**Author:** ![Wartime\_Consigliori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@Wartime\_Consigliori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wartime_Consigliori)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/17 "2005-06-24T17:35:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When Mr. Rove said, “liberals,” was he talking about politicians or poets? I think there’s a little slight of hand going on, frankly. Yesterday, I was listening to Sean Hannity’s radio show, and he was spinning this by pointing out, like you have noted, that Rove was referring to liberals and not Democrats, so any outrage over the comments is misguided. He then went on to hammer Hillary for trying to hide her liberalism. During the campaign, he constantly stated that Sen. Kerry was more liberal than even Ted Kennedy. It was an intriguing method of attacking Democrats in fact without technically doing so. Genius, really. FWIW- I remember most of the liberal “caution” immediately after 9/11 as being more along the lines of “Let’s not carpet bomb Mecca until we get an idea of who was behind this”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/18 "2005-06-24T17:41:19Z")
> [@initech](#): > > Excellent point, **Bricker.** I had assumed he was talking about political figures and matters of public policy. It’s obvious to me now that he was taking a much-needed stand against liberal poets. I, for one, think it’s high time we put some of these fuckers in their place. Finally! I couldn’t agree more. I hate them SO much… Oh. Was that my out-loud voice? > [@jsgoddess](#): > > If I say “Christians want gays ridiculed and harassed” would you object? 'Cause Fred Phelps is a Christian. Similar statements are offered on this board regularly. I’ve gotten tired of pointing out that the word “Some” should be added to make the statement correct. Just so with Mr. Rove – “SOME liberals…” is correct. But hardly useful. As someone else pointed out, SOME conservatives suggested we brought this on ourselves as a nation for permitting abortion and homosexuality to run rampant. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/19 "2005-06-24T17:41:35Z")
Herein lies the problem with labels and generalizations. After the attacks, there certainly were some liberal-type folks that talked about how we had brought this on ourselves by our actions in the Middle East. As **Squink** mentioned, there were also conservative-type folks that talked about how we had brought this on ourselves by sinning and angering God. Despite that, neither liberals nor conservatives _as a group_ felt any such thing–nor did democrats and republicans, nor vegans and carnivores. Every stupid statement like Rove’s causes more stupid statements by the people attacking him, which causes people to try even harder to pigeonhole each other. I said something on another forum (where I’d never posted anything political) about being annoyed about equally by the democrats and republicans. Someone responded, “you libertarians are all alike” (I don’t fit that particular pigeonhole, either). It was probably tongue-in-cheek, but still… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674/20 "2005-06-24T17:49:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Similar statements are offered on this board regularly. I’ve gotten tired of pointing out that the word “Some” should be added to make the statement correct. Just so with Mr. Rove – “SOME liberals…” is correct. But hardly useful. As someone else pointed out, SOME conservatives suggested we brought this on ourselves as a nation for permitting abortion and homosexuality to run rampant. But this is a lie. As I said above, he named Dick Durbin, and also named Howard Dean > **[Democrats Call for Rove To Apologize](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062301727.html)** > [@](#): > > He cited the liberal group [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) and filmmaker Michael Moore, but he criticized only two politicians by name: Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean and Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.). The “he only said liberals” (as if that were some sort of meaningful excuse) spin is a lie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-demand-that-rove-apologize-or-resign/309674.md?page=2)