I haven’t read all of the discussion, which should be a cardinal sin. But I wanted to just get a quick statement on the record, given that I’m one of the token conservatives around here.
Karl Rove’s comments had a small grain of truth in them. However, they were overbroad, painting all liberals with the characteristics of some extremists. As such, they weren’t helpful, and I can’t support them as such.
This notion that Rove should resign is just stupid. In recent threads I have been critical of Howard Dean and Richard Durbin for various boneheaded comments. I don’t recall ever suggesting that they should resign, and that doesn’t sound like something I would say.
Rove may have screwed up, but this is no firing offense.
Well stated, Max - this is an administration that came to power via divisiveness, demonization, and mean-spirited caricaturization of those they disagree with. It’s all they know how to do. It was no “momentary lapse of judgment” on Rove’s part, it’s of a piece with his entire method of operation - and yes, it’s been terribly destructive to the country. The ardent loyalists, of which we have more than one in this thread, naturally don’t think so and don’t have an answer when it’s pointed out to them. Except to blame Durbin, claim he’s the issue and not our government’s use of torture, claiming that posts are “drive-bys” (and of a “third-party” kind? Where is the guy saying that posting from?), and similar acts of attempted misdirection.
The saving grace is the intense backlash that this is receiving. The more of this shit that the administration and its supporters pull, the less support it gets, and the less ability it has to do anything further to us.
Really, Moto? You think he just “screwed up”? Like, “ooopsy!”
So, you figure these were, what, off the cuff remarks? Just winging it, was he? I tend to think he probably wrote it all out in advance, maybe even passed it around, get some feedback. But you don’t think so, huh?
See, that’s kind of a strange idea for a bunch of folks not much known for improvisational flair. Find that kind of hard to buy, frankly.
The only reason to call for Rove’s resignation is as part of a zero-tolerance policy on the part of Democrats toward the scurrilous slanders the administration has been throwing against Democrats for the past five years. I welcome a similar zero-tolerance policy on the part of the Republicans–but they’ve already had one in place, and indeed have been highly successful at using it to distract from the real issues (viz. the recent disgraceful attention on certain of Durbin’s words rather than on the issue that underlay them).
Which, Moto? The things they actually said, or the Improved Edition? In Durbin’s case, what he actually said and what the foam-flecked Right says he said bear little resemblence to each other. As friend Frosti noted previously, Mr Deans comments have been artfully elided and improved upon, so if I started to defend what he actually said, I’d already be a step behind, because then I’d have to defend what you guys say he said.
Amendation: the term “you guys” is not intended to specificly refer to Moto. Clearly, he could have had nothing to do with amendments and ellisions of Dean’s statements as brought to our attention by Frosti.
Survey says…: "Two weeks after the attacks, 84% of self-described liberals supported “military action” against the terrorists and 75% supported “going to war with a nation that is harboring those responsible.”
E-mails from servicemen and vets telling Karl where to stuff it.
Offered without comment.
Excerpts:
There’s more. Lots more. Every day.
(Note: it is impossible for me make any judgement on the sources of these e-mail, it remains possible, of course, that these are all merely the bogus issuance of some creepy liberal conspiracy. The host of this web page offers some assurance on his efforts to ensure authenticity, but again, who knows for sure?
“Nobody loves me but my mother, and she could be jiving too” - B.B. King
I take the fact that he quits, rather than providing some further tangential, yet erroneous, distraction (or an in-the-face-of-all-evidence persistence) as a sign of progress. Clearly he was not able to answer elucidator’s call to address the primarily offensive portion of Rove’s flatulence.
In the case of Osama and followers the therapy I even favored was Shock-Therapy.
But that was before Iraq, unfortunately we were swamped with bad intelligence and and administration that loved that faulty intelligence, hard to justify then that kind of thereapy.
And here Karl Rove and buddies ignore that in the meantime between 9/11 and today, Iraq and willfull twisting of information happened, and now it is not just liberals but even conservatives who are demanding an explanation.
Well, if that is the case, I apologize for saying otherwise. I missed it, and in reviewing the thread, still can’t find it, but I’ll take your word for it.
That’s why we need to rebuild the human intelligence apparatus that many on the left found so distasteful. The reason above is precisely why GWB has increased the budget for the operational side of the CIA.
Part of that careful and painstaking work includes interrogating prisoners and following up on their information while holding them incommunicado.
As far as I can tell, 5 years on the CIA is still struggling to find its post-Sept. 11 role. The same holds for the FBI and DoD antiterror intelligence apparati.
Perhaps you could provide a link that shows how Bush has been championing human intelligence?
