# Democrats efforts to "de-legitimize" Trump's election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 12, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987 "2017-01-12T21:17:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/81 "2017-01-14T14:58:13Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Obama was flatly unwilling to work with Republicans Who held a leadership meeting _on Inauguration Day_ to work out how to thwart whom? Who declared it to be their \*top \*priority to make whom a “one term President”? > [@](#): > > Both parties do it when they can. Talk about selling lines … :rolleyes: Take it to people who _aren’t_ part of the reality-based community. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Care to explain who is? Their standard scapegoats are Bill Clinton and Barney Frank, somehow for making it easier for people to buy houses or something. They have to invoke a multi-year time lag to do it, though. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/82 "2017-01-14T15:04:00Z")
And even there, they’re wrong. [http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/housing/2004-01-20-fha\_x.htm](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/housing/2004-01-20-fha_x.htm) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/83 "2017-01-14T15:16:14Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Shrug: a bit extreme, and hardly worth worrying about. It could go in the Pit as “Stupid Democratic Idea of the Day” and I wouldn’t disagree too strongly. > > At least it isn’t quite as stupid as the Birthers. You might want to read the thread title and the first set of posts where people were denying that this was happening. To say “this is hardly worth noting” when it’s exactly what the thread is about is laughable. If that’s not worth noting, then ask the mods to close the thread because nothing is worth noting. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/84 "2017-01-14T16:32:21Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Obama was flatly unwilling to work with Republicans (much like Democrats were unwilling to work with Bush from circa late 2006/early 2007, and on multiple occasions decided to state some form of the phrase “Neener neener, I won so Republicans need to get on board”. I kinda wonder - what would convince you that this view is wrong? Maybe numerous republican amendments adopted to Obamacare? Maybe changing it from the original plan, which was a single-payer system, at the behest of the republicans? Maybe the way he worked with them on the sequester or the fiscal cliff? Maybe the numerous republicans he appointed to government positions? I have no idea how you reached this position. I don’t know what basis it has. But the democrats have reached across the aisle on numerous occasions. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/85 "2017-01-14T16:44:28Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Trump’s problem is not that he’s an idiot or a failure. (He clearly did OK in business.) It’s that he has no experience with, and a very unsophisticated understanding of, politics and policy and he’s too arrogant to learn. He clearly, on the contrary, did not do that well in business. You know the litany of bankruptcies, failures to pay contractors, stiffing co-investors, hundreds of lawsuits to try to get him to be honest and to pay his bills… and, as you also know, if he had taken the inheritance he got from his father and simply put it into the stock market, he would be, without doubt a multibillionaire. We do not know if he has any net worth, actually. He may well owe more than the value of his properties and assets. Any discussion of ‘qualified’ that uses his business experience as a prop is just not credible. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/86 "2017-01-14T16:48:26Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Causing the economic crash, for starters. > > Why do you guys continue to peddle this line? Obama was flatly unwilling to work with Republicans (much like Democrats were unwilling to work with Bush from circa late 2006/early 2007, and on multiple occasions decided to state some form of the phrase “Neener neener, I won so Republicans need to get on board”. > > And, fwiw, gerrymandering isn’t something just Republicans do. Take a look at California, or even at Florida’s 5th district. Both parties do it when they can. I really think you are intelligent, but just are badly informed. Perhaps you are working from a desk in St. Petersburg…Russia. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/87 "2017-01-14T16:52:17Z")
\ Republicans have a policy in place to use control of every state legislature they have as a springboard to insure they never lose that control. Makes it easy to target the next one. Do Dems do the same? I don’t know, but why should either party be able to muss with elections by drawing lines that favor their situation? It should be illegal, period, ruled by federal courts, etc. and alternatives based on scientific randomness mandated. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/88 "2017-01-14T16:55:27Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > He clearly, on the contrary, did not do that well in business. You know the litany of bankruptcies, failures to pay contractors, stiffing co-investors, hundreds of lawsuits to try to get him to be honest and to pay his bills… > > and, as you also know, if he had taken the inheritance he got from his father and simply put it into the stock market, he would be, without doubt a multibillionaire. We do not know if he has any net worth, actually. He may well owe more than the value of his properties and assets. > > Any discussion of ‘qualified’ that uses his business experience as a prop is just not credible. And he’s a [wee bit in debt.](http://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/01/05/no-conflict-here-150-wall-street-firms-own-over-15-billion-trumps-debt) > [@](#): > > An analysis by the Wall Street Journal published Thursday found that the\*\* incoming president owes at least $1.85 billion in debt to as many as 150 Wall Street firms and other financial institutions.\*\* > > According to the examination of legal and property documents, “Hundreds of millions of dollars of debt attached to Mr. Trump’s properties, some of them backed by Mr. Trump’s personal guarantee, were packaged into securities and sold to investors over the past five years,” thus “broadening the tangle of interests that pose potential conflicts for the incoming president’s administration.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/89 "2017-01-14T16:55:36Z")
> [@](#): > > …and alternatives based on scientific randomness mandated. (post shortened. Just telling you so you know, that’s not really how it was…) Tough enough getting them to _let_ some folks vote! Now you say those votes should be equal? Some people are just never satisfied! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/90 "2017-01-14T17:26:49Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > It should be illegal, period, ruled by federal courts, etc. and alternatives based on scientific randomness mandated. You didn’t give any details about what you meant by “based on scientific randomness”, but some of the proposals I’ve heard of are probably illegal in their own right, and you probably wouldn’t like the results. They’d essentially be the perfect gerrymander. States that vote 55% one way, would get 100% of that party’s representatives in Congress. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/91 "2017-01-14T17:33:12Z")
If more people vote for Dems to be in the House, then more Dems should be in the House. Simple, really. If more people vote for Dems to be in the Senate, then more Dems should be in the Senate. Can’t break this down any further for you, **Hurr**. That’s pretty much it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/92 "2017-01-14T19:34:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If more people vote for Dems to be in the Senate, then more Dems should be in the Senate. This line in particular seems like a fairly ignorant view that ignores the Constitution and differences in various state’s populations. In 2016, in the general election for California’s Senate seat, the two Dem candidates garnered a little more than 10 million votes vs 0 for Republicans. That garnered the Dems one seat in the Senate. In Alaska, the Republicans won 111K to 28K for the Dem candidate. That 83K margin of victory garnered the Republicans a Senate seat as well. The Senate, in particular, is pointedly _not_ designed so that ‘if more people vote for Dems to be in the Senate, then more Dems should be in the Senate’. That’s not the way we do things in this country. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/93 "2017-01-14T19:47:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … That’s not the way we do things in this country. I know how we do things in this country. That’s what I’m trying to change. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/94 "2017-01-14T19:51:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I know how we do things in this country. That’s what I’m trying to change. Duh. You’re trying to change the apportionment of Senators? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/95 "2017-01-14T19:57:34Z")
Do we share any values at all? Like “one person, one vote”, “equality under the law”, any of that? I get the clear sense that you aren’t bemoaning something you think you cannot change, but gloating that I can’t. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/96 "2017-01-14T20:13:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Do we share any values at all? Like “one person, one vote”, “equality under the law”, any of that? I get the clear sense that you aren’t bemoaning something you think you cannot change, but gloating that I can’t. > > Lead, follow, or get out of the way. I certainly don’t want to see the Senate become just another House of Representatives. If that means we don’t “share any values at all”, then so be it. There’s another option: opposition. If your effort ever gained any momentum, I’d oppose it. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/97 "2017-01-14T20:14:22Z")
The fact remains for all the polemic that attempting to delegitimize a candidate who has won a Presidential election is very bad for democracy. If an election can’t legitimize a President then what the hell can? Military force? Liberals who are screaming that Trump isn’t their President might care to reflect that’s precisely what Yayha Jammeh is saying in Gambia about his opponent who won a democratic election for President. Jammeh won’t accept the result because he doesn’t like it. Do we really want to go there? Liberals need to accept that they lost and work to win the next time, not try to suggest, as they have been doing, that Trump is somehow not a legitimate President. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/98 "2017-01-14T20:15:56Z")
Well, just for starters, _we_ aren’t “de-legitimizing” him. He is. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/99 "2017-01-14T20:22:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I certainly don’t want to see the Senate become just another House of Representatives. If that means we don’t “share any values at all”, then so be it. > > There’s another option: opposition. If your effort ever gained any momentum, I’d oppose it. That wasn’t quite the question, was it? Do you recognize the inequality our Founders built into the system, wish you could change it, but can’t? 'Cause it sounds a lot like “neener neener”. Here’s your opportunity to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987/100 "2017-01-14T21:19:53Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Do we really want to go there? You are there. You’ve been there for eight years. The weeping and wailing from right-wing scum who claimed President of the United States of America Barack Hussein Obama wasn’t born in the US because they couldn’t handle having a black man as President proves this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-efforts-to-de-legitimize-trumps-election/776987.md?page=6)