# Democrats for a Flat Tax in California? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 12, 2009, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746 "2009-07-12T08:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/81 "2009-07-14T20:15:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That is the most retarded system of taxation I have ever heard of. I can understand a cap on real estate tax increases but when you have long time residents of Palo Alto paying $1000/year on a home worth $2 million dollars because they have lived there for 30 years, you are basically robbing Peter to pay Paul and Paul is the long time resident of homes that have quintupled in value. Know what’s even more retarded? This applies to corporate real estate taxes also. After all, the senior corporate citizens like HP shouldn’t have to pay on the appreciation of their property. Calls for a dual roll system get the typical responses of “businesses will move away if you tax them like the rest of the country.” BTW, the compromise that led to the January deal involved a $2.5 billion (from memory) tax break for businesses, demanded by the Republicans. See why we’re screwed? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/82 "2009-07-14T20:21:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If someone does not “feel” rich because the Smith’s have a $3 million home to their mere $1 million home I have no sympathy. > > Their problem is a seriously distorted worldview. Not that they are not, in fact, wealthy. It depends strongly on what your $1 million home is like. When we were house hunting here, 14 years ago, our house in a good part of NJ was worth about $250K. We were interested in a good town (I think Los Gatos) and asked to see houses in that price range there. The only one - which was a bit more than $250K - was a shack up on a hill that I wouldn’t have wanted my Boy Scout troop to camp in. Million dollar houses near me (and I live in a less expensive place) were maybe 2500 sq ft with almost no backyard, and hardly mansions. Until recently, anyway, you paid a premium for a shorter commute. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/83 "2009-07-14T20:39:55Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It depends strongly on what your $1 million home is like. When we were house hunting here, 14 years ago, our house in a good part of NJ was worth about $250K. We were interested in a good town (I think Los Gatos) and asked to see houses in that price range there. The only one - which was a bit more than $250K - was a shack up on a hill that I wouldn’t have wanted my Boy Scout troop to camp in. Million dollar houses near me (and I live in a less expensive place) were maybe 2500 sq ft with almost no backyard, and hardly mansions. Until recently, anyway, you paid a premium for a shorter commute. Fine…we all make decisions. If you get a 250k/year job but it costs 400k/year to raise a family in anything like proximity to your job (and a decent neighborhood) then your 250k job ain’t so hot. More like a 30k/year job in a more modestly priced area. I would presume however that jobs in the area pay relative to the cost of living there. They have to otherwise they’d have no workers because they could not afford to live there. An equilibrium should be found. I was in London recently and was window shopping the ads in realtor windows for fun and the prices for a modest apartment there were astounding. No clue how anyone affords to live in that city. Makes Manhattan look like an absolute bargain. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/84 "2009-07-14T21:03:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I was in London recently and was window shopping the ads in realtor windows for fun and the prices for a modest apartment there were astounding. No clue how anyone affords to live in that city. Makes Manhattan look like an absolute bargain. My brother makes near-Fortune 500 CEO money at the moment and he can’t afford to live their either. He takes a 2 1/2 hour commute instead. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/85 "2009-07-14T22:17:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’d ask what kind of child care he is looking for that should impact their finances so much. Basic infant out of home care in a group setting is going to run us 1300-1600 per month for one child. This is the lower end of the spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/86 "2009-07-14T22:31:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Lots and lots and lots of people, most parents in fact, manage on less and even a lot less (presumably 98.5% of the population manages with less). It may not be easy for them but they manage. > > I don’t know his finances (nor is it appropriate here) but clearly they are well off and should be able to manage fine. At least I hope so because if he is screwed then the vast majority of the US is really, majorly, seriously screwed. > > Not to mention I cited a person making $1 million/year. I think we’re talking about me, so I’ll butt in. 98.5% manages with less assuming that you are talking about just flat numbers, but you can’t do that. 100K is rich in Louisiana. In New York, you are living on credit, with roommates or commuting two hours. I could move to Louisiana, but obviously then my earning power would diminish. It’s like having an intergalactic steel cage match and setting the weight classes without taking gravity on the different planets into effect. In addition to being the nerdiest thing I’ve ever typed, this shows that it isn’t the same thing. A 250 pound strong guy here is not the same as a 250 pound guy on the moon. He’s going to get his assed kicked by the 250 pound moon guy who is going to be a behemoth. The numbers are all relative. Yes, there is a premium to live in these places. Which is why I’m saying that it has gotten to the point that I can’t afford the premium and will be leaving. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/87 "2009-07-15T14:52:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think anyone was taking the whole Wyoming/Dakotas data seriously. These are the least poulous states. They have the higest electoral votes per capita in the country so of course they get more pork. Serious or not, they’re on **PunkPoo** ’s list. > [@](#): > > It’s like having an intergalactic steel cage match and setting the weight classes without taking gravity on the different planets into effect. In addition to being the nerdiest thing I’ve ever typed… God, I hope so, for your sake. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TheMadHun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@TheMadHun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMadHun)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/88 "2009-07-17T14:44:56Z")
The simplest way to get a fairer distribution is to remove all deductions. Tax the gross and not the net. That prevents all the scams companies use to shelter funds and pay zero tax. What, you took in a billion but lost it devaluating some subsidiary? Tough. Pay your tax as you go, right off the top as the money comes in. Sort of like sales tax but on income. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/89 "2009-07-17T15:18:42Z")
> [@TheMadHun](#): > > The simplest way to get a fairer distribution is to remove all deductions. Tax the gross and not the net. That prevents all the scams companies use to shelter funds and pay zero tax. > What, you took in a billion but lost it devaluating some subsidiary? Tough. Pay your tax as you go, right off the top as the money comes in. Sort of like sales tax but on income. So if I “make” a million dollars selling widgets, but the widgets I sell for a dollar cost me 75 cents you want me to pay tax on the whole million? If I sell a house for $500K but I bought if for $600K you want me to pay tax on that? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/90 "2009-07-26T23:17:03Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Yes, there is a premium to live in these places. Which is why I’m saying that it has gotten to the point that I can’t afford the premium and will be leaving. That was my point. I doubt you are moving because of a 2% differential in state taxes, it probably has a LOT more to do with the COLA. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/91 "2009-07-26T23:19:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Serious or not, they’re on **PunkPoo** ’s list. OK then, I guess I would say that the typical Wyoming resident has several times the electoral representation that the typical California resident has. This allows them to receive significantly more federal funding per capita and allows them to operate on lower taxes and still have enough left over to keep everyone employed. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/92 "2009-07-26T23:35:45Z")
> [@TheMadHun](#): > > The simplest way to get a fairer distribution is to remove all deductions. Tax the gross and not the net. That prevents all the scams companies use to shelter funds and pay zero tax. > What, you took in a billion but lost it devaluating some subsidiary? Tough. Pay your tax as you go, right off the top as the money comes in. Sort of like sales tax but on income. I wish it were as simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746/93 "2009-07-27T13:24:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OK then, I guess I would say that the typical Wyoming resident has several times the electoral representation that the typical California resident has. This allows them to receive significantly more federal funding per capita and allows them to operate on lower taxes and still have enough left over to keep everyone employed. …and to serve as examples for how low state taxes = low unemployment, if you aren’t paying attention. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-for-a-flat-tax-in-california/502746.md?page=4)