# Democrats have not tried infiltrating MAGA en masse from within **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 28, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529 "2025-01-28T13:39:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/21 "2025-01-28T16:28:42Z")
Yeah, I’ve often felt that if you are a red state white male politician who’s not absurdly liberal, your best bet to actually influence things and effect change would be to run as a Republican and set yourself up as a sort of alternative to MAGA/far right. At least that way, you’ve got a seat at the table, as opposed to being marginalized and excluded. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/22 "2025-01-28T16:38:25Z")
Those folks all got primaried by hard-core MAGAts and are now out of politics. As and when MAGAtism begins to run out of steam, that play will start to become viable. But we have not yet hit peak MAGA, and right now the braying horde is hell bent for greater extremism, not for being corralled back towards sanity. IMO this is like the old saw about when an alcoholic will decide to dry out. They have to hit bottom first; they won’t have that motivation until they have been utterly degraded unto despair by their own excesses and have nowhere else to go except the grave or the gutter. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/23 "2025-01-28T17:01:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > IMO this is like the old saw about when an alcoholic will decide to dry out. They have to hit bottom first; they won’t have that motivation until they have been utterly degraded unto despair by their own excesses and have nowhere else to go except the grave or the gutter. Unfortunately, in this analogy, we all share the same liver as the alcoholic, or have connected livers. So we’re all getting cirrhosis together. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/24 "2025-01-28T17:09:03Z")
And we have no idea whatsoever where that “bottom” actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/25 "2025-01-28T17:14:25Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Immigration all by itself lost the election for the democrats. Why not just take a reasonable approach to immigration? > [@Mijin](#): > > The border bill was incredibly conservative and featured none of the usual liberal red lines, like a path to citizenship. Forget the Biden bill. In 2007 George W. Bush proposed a comprehensive border bill. Nobody remembers it because it was strangled by the radical right. [Looking at it now, it’s even more tame than Biden’s.](https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/stateoftheunion/2007/initiatives/immigration.html) Some people refuse to compromise. Trump’s particular gift is being able to get every one of those people on every issue to vote as a block. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/26 "2025-01-28T17:14:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Unfortunately, in this analogy, we all share the same liver as the alcoholic, or have connected livers. So we’re all getting cirrhosis together. Being one member of a “Siamese” twin really sucks. But here we are and we _are_ going to be taken for a ride by our suicidal liver-mate. ---
**Author:** ![BorealisCooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@BorealisCooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorealisCooper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/27 "2025-01-28T17:17:52Z")
You seriously don’t think liberals sometimes pretend to be Repubbas, and on the flip side, conservatives don’t pretend to be Dims , to try to make the other side look bad and stupid and/or to undermine the other side ? For the record, the pejorative terms for both sides was just being silly, because that’s what it seems to me when I hear or read that sort of thing. It’s like middle school. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/28 "2025-01-28T17:19:53Z")
> MAGA folks tend to be highly gullible and accepting of things that “their own people” tell them from within I think this _attitude_ is the reason Democrats have been unsuccessful. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/29 "2025-01-28T17:42:16Z")
So they vote like morons because we think they’re morons? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/30 "2025-01-28T17:43:25Z")
A couple of flaws in this plan: - The idea that Maga members have any influence on Trump or the GOP, is laughable. They are are there to vote Trump, get bilked out of their money and occasionally turn up and riot - I’m not sure how a Democratic infiltrator could make the MAGA more dysfunctional than it actual is - There is not even any way reporting on the secret thoughts and discussions of the movement could do any good either. The whole movement is based on the idea that old white men should be able to say whatever hideous terrible things is in their mind without any repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![BorealisCooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@BorealisCooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorealisCooper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/31 "2025-01-28T18:46:17Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > > MAGA folks tend to be highly gullible and accepting of things that “their own people” tell them from within > > I think this _attitude_ is the reason Democrats have been unsuccessful. Good point. One reason anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/32 "2025-01-28T18:47:46Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > I’ve said on the boards before, I think we should have tried portraying Trump as a buffoon. Pointing and laughing. The one thing a tyrant can’t stand is not being taken seriously. You mean like [this](https://youtu.be/PIHRrGHSaX0?si=dZoYIxyZR4lfKRbX), or [this](https://youtu.be/euycIDwWwis?si=bU4o6kheofp0oqwY), or [this](https://youtu.be/I3B95WxMDhA?si=ZwXENyQuemQ-aBXn)? That plays well to the anti-Trump base but doesn’t do anything for the MAGA faithful, or even skeptical but Trump-leaning Republicans because they regard it (correctly) as propaganda. Nobody has to go to great lengths to “[portray] Trump as a buffoon”; he does that to himself with great frequency, and his supporters lap it up. Adolf Hitler was a buffoon, too; in fact, the man who appointed him to be Chancellor called him “a clown” (among other more colorful epithets) and yet bent to the pressure of both the industrialists backing Hitler (including Elon Musk prototype [Frederich Flick](https://www.britannica.com/biography/Friedrich-Flick)) and is vocal and vicious minority base that effectively shut down dissent through intimidation and later open mob violence > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Instead of thinking infiltration why not think in terms of narrowing the divide between the two parties. The wide division is scaring people. Immigration all by itself lost the election for the democrats. Why not just take a reasonable approach to immigration? The gender issues also cost a lot of votes. Why not look at that a little closer and make some adjustments there? \Yes, Democrats should definitely adopt more narrow-minded, bigoted, economically counterproductive policies and back persecution of minorities in order to attract voters, because scapegoating and marginalizing people is what standing up for democracy is all about.\ > [@DocCathode](#): > > The swing voters have already been presented with the horrible truth about Trump many many many times. They know what he did during his first term. They know, from his officially endorse ads, what he promised to do this term. If by this point they have not decided to vote against Trump, they never will. As I’ve noted elsewhere, the American public has been primed for fascism for the last thirty-five years courtesy of Robert Murdoch and Newt Gingrich, and Donald Trump was just the right kind of shameless buffoon to grab the reigns of that frightened horse and guide it toward the calming dark certainty of autocracy. At this point, ‘winning voters’ isn’t as much an issue of influencing their “hearts and minds” (and certainly not of advancing sensible policy, else Liz Warren would be in the White House right now telling the ‘oligarchs’ where to shove their ill-deserved billions of speculative Monopoly money) as counter-conditioning them away from an absurd fear of hordes of murderous immigrants and children being sex-changed in kindergarten. > [@griffin1977](#): > > I’m not sure how a Democratic infiltrator could make the MAGA more dysfunctional than it actual is This notion of infiltrating the MAGA movement can causing them to see the light or turn upon themselves is a great premise for a [_Daily Show_ field piece](https://youtu.be/-9ggGv17wSc?si=tk2H_frXbAtpVx8W) but if Jordan Klepper can’t manage it good luck turning that into effective change that undermines Trump. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/33 "2025-01-28T19:09:50Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I think this _attitude_ is the reason Democrats have been unsuccessful. Possibly I could disagree with this more strongly, but I doubt it. As I have mentioned before on the Dope, before the election I was extremely oustpoken about the evil that is Trump. I saw pro-Trump comments on a friend’s post (that friend is very anti-Trump). The Trumper instantly impressed me as a moron. I countered her comments partly out of principle and partly out of hope of swaying other people who might read our conversation. She made weak arguments, which I easily countered. She made very vague claims. I responded with specific examples and linked and quoted cites. When I asked her for details on her vague claims or cites to back them up, she just left a laughing emoji on my comment. I was going to ask my friend what this idiot Trumper was doing on her Facebook friends list. But, my friend had to go in for emergency surgery. By the time she was well enough for me to bug her about it, the election was over and I had forgotten. Now that Trump is back in office, my friend has made a few posts about all the horrible things he has already done in his second term. I noticed somebody disapproving of these posts. I wondered if it was the Trumper moron. It was. I asked my friend why this person was on her friends list. She said that the moron was actually very pro LGBT and anti-racism. I asked why the moron supported Trump then. My friend explained that the moron was convinced that all the hatred and bigotry Trump showed while campaigning was just a show for voters. He would not take away gay rights or really start mass deportations. So, we have somebody who learned nothing from Trump’s first term as President. She also learned nothing from the last Presidential race. This is why I call her a moron. I have said it before and I will say it again, Trump supporters are hate filled, morons or both. Our attitude towards them is an effect of their support for Trump, not the cause of it. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/34 "2025-01-28T19:18:35Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Why not just take a reasonable approach to immigration? [![](https://img.ifunny.co/images/28949da9d6181be720fad92454b664f6010b11a350019b3453c8453e3962cdbe_1.jpg) ](https://img.ifunny.co/images/28949da9d6181be720fad92454b664f6010b11a350019b3453c8453e3962cdbe_1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/35 "2025-01-28T20:11:28Z")
There have been liberals as of late who’ve tried infiltrating right wing militia groups. Here’s a story about them: [Infiltrating the Far Right | The New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/08/26/infiltrating-the-far-right) But they’re not going in with the intention or expectation of changing people’s minds. Rather they’re trying to dig up dirt on the group’s activities to bring them down from the inside. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/36 "2025-01-28T21:57:31Z")
> **[Opinion | Here’s Why We Shouldn’t Demean Trump Voters](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/31/opinion/trump-voters-liberal-civil.html)** > > Educated liberals often view the conservative working class with a whiff of condescension that is both unfair and counterproductive. I won’t endorse everything written, but it _is_ “difficult to win votes from people you’re disparaging.” ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/37 "2025-01-28T22:24:51Z")
I have not read the opinion piece you linked to. I see no reason to do so. For most of my life, Republicans were simply people I disagreed with on a whole lot of issues. Trump changed that. Sane Republican officials were shamed and voted out of office.The Republican party is now the party of Trump. Trump is a hate filled idiot. His officially endorsed television ads were either devoted to one kind of bigotry or another, or made promises that were impossible to keep.He was elected by voters who endorsed his hatred or belived he would fulfill his impossible promises. They are either hate filled or morons, or both. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/38 "2025-01-28T22:36:47Z")
I’m not much disparaging those folks. I’m disparaging the educated successful country club Rs who looked at a ballot that said “trump (R)” & chose to vote for R with no thought that trump was what they were actually going to get instead. Not an R as anyone ever recognized that term before. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/39 "2025-01-28T23:36:55Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I won’t endorse everything written, but it _is_ “difficult to win votes from people you’re disparaging.” This is another piece of rhetoric that has worked wonderfully for MAGA. _False_ rhetoric. MAGA constantly do much more than demean democrat voters; as I say, even in church they say they aren’t welcome. They constantly criticize blue america and paint it as being crime-ridden hellholes in a way that would never be tolerated about red states (which, per capita, tend to have higher crime). Heck they just outright call liberals communists, pedophiles etc. And, I’m sorry to bring up the example for a third time, but it’s just so perfect: a bishop said we should show compassion to LGBT people and the response was to say that she should be deported and deserves no mercy. But nah, the big problem here is people _on the left_ being disparaging. Da fuck? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2025, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/40 "2025-01-28T23:49:39Z")
Thanks. As I have posted about, I was visiting family in Florida the past two weeks. During that time, we did not watch any news program. My sister in law forbade it. Seeing as she is not just a left wing liberal, but a lesbian who used to teach public school she is even more angry and dismayed by Trump than I am. I missed the news last night. Tonight, I learn of the federal funding freeze. The White House press secretary spoke. She said in part ‘This will stop illegal DEI programs, transgenderism and wokeness’. Obviously, if a DEI program were illegal it would be challenged in court. The case would either officially rule the program illegal, or it would be appealed to the Supreme Court- which would declare the program illegal. I have no idea what exactly ‘transgenderism’ is. It reminds me of an issue of The Legion Of Substitute Heores. Infectious Las accidentally gives Color Kid a “gender reversal” virus. Fortunately, the program went on to report that the government will no longer fund any kind of transition surgery. It went on to say that in at least one state it was now illegal for anybody under 19 to have the surgery. This confuses me. You can drive at 16. Vote and join the military at 18. You can drink at 21. Now, we have a new milestone. "Wokeness’ has been explored at length on the Dope. Nobody has offered a definition that stood up to even the slightest scrutiny. It is a nebulous term for what ever Democrats do or support that Trump and his supporters don’t like. I have to go now. A Haitian immigrant is about to eat my cat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529.md?page=3)