# Democrats have not tried infiltrating MAGA en masse from within **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 28, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529 "2025-01-28T13:39:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/41 "2025-01-29T01:41:40Z")
Rather than infiltrate, anti-magas might think about marginalizing and isolating them on issues, especially at local and state levels. This exercise outlines the strategy and helps with tactics. [Spectrum of Allies | Training For Change](https://www.trainingforchange.org/training_tools/spectrum-of-allies/) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/42 "2025-01-29T02:07:05Z")
Trying to infiltrate a cult is a good way to get absorbed by the cult. The Right has gained lots of adherents from people who decided to associate with them for one reason for another who thought they were immune to propaganda. They weren’t. > [@Max\_S](#): > > I won’t endorse everything written, but it _is_ “difficult to win votes from people you’re disparaging.” We won’t win votes from them under any circumstances short of _becoming_ them, and then there’s no point because they’ve won. The refusal to acknowledge that the Right is composed of evil, ignorant and irrational people is the problem, _not_ being “mean” to them. The Democrats have tried pandering to them for decades and it’s led to disaster after disaster. It never gains any votes from the Right, and loses votes from everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/43 "2025-01-29T02:26:24Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I think this _attitude_ is the reason Democrats have been unsuccessful. > > ~Max > [@NEW Stupid Republican Idea of the Day (Part 3)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day-part-3/986588/9752): > > > [@NEW Stupid Republican Idea of the Day (Part 3)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day-part-3/986588/9718): > > > > A [proposed bill](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/mississippi-lawmaker-introduces-contraception-begins-erection-act-rcna188938) in Mississippi ‘_would make it unlawful for “a person to discharge genetic material without the intent to fertilize an embryo.”_’ Essentially, it would outlaw choking the chicken. > > Now that he’s getting death threats, he was just joking. > > [Mississippi Lawmaker Behind Masturbation Ban Bill Is Getting Death Threats](https://www.tmz.com/2025/01/28/mississippi-lawmaker-masturbation-ban-is-getting-death-threats/) Who do you suppose is stupid enough to take this seriously, so much so that they’re issuing death threats? I’ll bet anything it’s not Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/44 "2025-01-29T04:17:31Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > Who do you suppose is stupid enough to take this seriously, so much so that they’re issuing death threats? I’ll bet anything it’s not Democrats. Why not? And what makes you think it’s _not_ meant seriously? “Masturbation is evil” is the kind of old school puritanism the Republicans like. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/45 "2025-01-29T04:25:37Z")
On the other hand, the Republicans have shown us that it is much easier to stab people once they put down their weapons and attempt to meet you halfway. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/46 "2025-01-29T04:50:32Z")
@Fretful_Porpentine has some first hand experience with infiltration, albeit in the now distant past. I would be interested in her views of the OP. Generally speaking, I’m a try everything guy. Infiltration can work with far-right fringe operations. Talia Lavin successfully catfished a number a racist groups. [Unicorn Riot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn_Riot) also does some good work with documenting far right activities, leaking Discord messages of racist groups, etc. I’m not so sure how infiltration would work with something as inchoate as MAGA. There are no silver bullets but hitting opponents of democracy from many angles is all to the good. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/47 "2025-01-29T04:59:50Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > This is another piece of rhetoric that has worked wonderfully for MAGA. _False_ rhetoric. Even though Mr. Trump and his supporters disparage Democrats, that isn’t a problem because they weren’t _trying_ to infiltrate the Democratic party or win Democratic party voters. And they didn’t. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/48 "2025-01-29T05:07:31Z")
Agree with Max that disparaging your target is not a quality infiltration strategy. Talia Lavin went by the handle AryanQueen when she catfished racists. I’m glad we got that sorted out. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/49 "2025-01-29T05:13:24Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > or win Democratic party voters Yeah, telling Black Americans to "Get off the Democrat plantation!’ was never intended to change voting patterns. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/50 "2025-01-29T08:28:32Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > But nah, the big problem here is people _on the left_ being disparaging. Da fuck? It’s classic dictionary-definition abuser rhetoric. “It’s your fault I’m hitting you. If you weren’t like that, I wouldn’t have to hit you. Stop doing that and I’ll stop hitting you. It’s your own fault.” No coincidence that Trump has become its standard-bearer. Depressing to see this poison being injected with a straight face in a discussion here, but these are depressing times. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/51 "2025-01-29T10:55:58Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Even though Mr. Trump and his supporters disparage Democrats, that isn’t a problem because they weren’t _trying_ to infiltrate the Democratic party or win Democratic party voters. And they didn’t. Is that what the NYT article is about – infiltration? I can only read the first few lines because it is paywalled for me, but it seems the standard thing of it being Democrats’ fault for people voting for Trump. We shouldn’t have called some of them “semi-fascist” that one time, now they have _no choice_ but to vote for a fascist, who regularly calls his opponents actual fascists and far worse. Dems shouldn’t have held such extreme views over gender and immigration (that we’re not going to cite, because we’re either making it up or it’s just something a member of the public said once in a tweet). ---
**Author:** ![TeroSunbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terosunbear/32/14748_2.png) [@TeroSunbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeroSunbear)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/52 "2025-01-29T13:19:36Z")
Nobody at Trump rallies makes signs. Maybe a few outside. But they are not even able to express what they want other than the alpha male. “It’s all sanitized to give a safe family type of protest for them. No thought involved, even the signs they held ups were printed by Trump. Jordan Klepper was able to get something more out of the Trump supporters on the grounds of the events, but the issues still tended to fall in the conspiracy theories and the stolen election.” From my blog: > **[Protest in the 2020s](https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/2023/02/protest-in-2020s.html)** > > The tens of millions of people that voted for Trump and the equally large group that attended his rallies are used to togetherness at events... ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/53 "2025-01-29T14:02:03Z")
> [@NEW Stupid Republican Idea of the Day (Part 3)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day-part-3/986588/9752): > > > [@NEW Stupid Republican Idea of the Day (Part 3)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day-part-3/986588/9752): > > > > > [@NEW Stupid Republican Idea of the Day (Part 3)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day-part-3/986588/9718): > > > > > > A [proposed bill](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/mississippi-lawmaker-introduces-contraception-begins-erection-act-rcna188938) in Mississippi ‘_would make it unlawful for “a person to discharge genetic material without the intent to fertilize an embryo.”_’ Essentially, it would outlaw choking the chicken. > > > > Now that he’s getting death threats, he was just joking. > > > > [Mississippi Lawmaker Behind Masturbation Ban Bill Is Getting Death Threats](https://www.tmz.com/2025/01/28/mississippi-lawmaker-masturbation-ban-is-getting-death-threats/) > > Who do you suppose is stupid enough to take this seriously, so much so that they’re issuing death threats? I’ll bet anything it’s not Democrats. That’s not banning masturbation. That’s banning male masturbation, all forms of male and female contraception, male sex with a post-menopausal female, or male sex with a female known to be sterile for whatever reason. And of course any/all forms of male sex with another male. It also outlaws menstruation which discharges genetic material biologically intended for embryo production. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/54 "2025-01-29T14:20:05Z")
Perhaps it’s a Bridge to Far to pretend to be a MAGA. I couldn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/55 "2025-01-29T14:38:31Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > @Fretful_Porpentine has some first hand experience with infiltration, albeit in the now distant past. I would be interested in her views of the OP. I do? That’s news to me, are you sure you haven’t mixed me up with someone else? (I do, however, live in Mississippi and know a bit about the state legislature, and I can confirm that the guy who introduced the masturbation ban bill is a Democrat who was always acting with satirical intent.) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/56 "2025-01-29T16:28:43Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > It also outlaws menstruation > [@text from the bill itself](#): > > It shall be unlawful for a person to discharge genetic material without the intent to fertilize an embryo The key word there is “intent”. Women do not _intentionally_ menstruate (except in certain circumstances). And there is a flaw in the wording: “… to **fertilize** an **embryo** …” – an embryo is an ovum that has _already been fertilized_. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/57 "2025-01-29T17:23:35Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > IMO this is like the old saw about when an alcoholic will decide to dry out. They have to hit bottom first; they won’t have that motivation until they have been utterly degraded unto despair by their own excesses and have nowhere else to go except the grave or the gutter. I am very afraid you are correct: We (including a lot of other formerly democratic governments) are sliding ahead of the avalanche, and our _best_ hope is to be able to dig ourselves out when it finally congeals and stops. This is what I’d like to hear from the Doper historians (and maybe this should be a new thread?): **How do societies recover from these bouts of horrible, self-imposed, collective madness?** Hilter was brought down by external forces – do we have to count on China \ to save us? There have been other instances when everything got very, very bad: The French Revolution, The Inquisition, various religious purgings and witch-burnings. Is there a signal that says whoa!, we’ve gone crazy and that’s enough? Or is it going to be something as simple as the next pandemic? I guess I’m just looking for some sign that we’ve hit bottom and can start building our way back up. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/58 "2025-01-29T17:33:08Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > there is a flaw in the wording: “… to **fertilize** an **embryo** …” Freudian slip? On Blackmon’s side, not eschereal’s, if that’s necessary to say. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/59 "2025-01-29T17:33:19Z")
Iran is probably the best current parallel. They embraced madness 45 years ago. If their current regime falls and is replaced without some external invasion, it’ll be done by the people who are now children. When they’re in their 30s. So about 70 years’ run. Which is not much different from the lifetime of the Soviet Union. Which is also a good parallel for internal regime change, albeit not current. We’re still in the fat lady warming up phase, but she’ll be onstage for real before 2025 is over. So I’m thinking some time around 2095 the US public will be ready for their own anti-authoritarian revolution. IMO … About the only offramp before the waterfall is for trump to die after just enough federal destruction that many current MAGAts are feeling the pain personally. They sure won’t hear about in their media, but ehen their disability checks stop amd their autistic kid’s spec education shuts down and the police bust their heads, well, _then_ they’ll get the message. But they can only force a quick reversal if it happens real soon before the kleptocracy has embedded itself everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529/60 "2025-01-29T18:12:46Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Iran is probably the best current parallel. They embraced madness 45 years ago. If their current regime falls and is replaced without some external invasion, it’ll be done by the people who are now children. When they’re in their 30s. There was a major current of political unrest in Iran about 25 years ago, as young people who had no memory of Reza’s regime were protesting the current one. Few Iranians even remember Ruhollah, and when Ali bites it, what will follow is a hard guess, but I suspect Iran is ripe for major upheaval. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-have-not-tried-infiltrating-maga-en-masse-from-within/1013529.md?page=4)