# Democrats Hold Sit-In on House Floor **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 22, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060 "2016-06-22T17:19:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/161 "2016-06-23T16:46:02Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Let’s get one thing clear. There is no such animal as an inviolable constitutional right. > > The First Amendment has been dinged hundreds of times in the country’s history. So has the Second Amendment. (How many machine guns do you own?) The Fourth Amendment? The Supreme Court has just ruled that an outstanding warrant may be used to arrest a person who was detained illegally. That same Supreme Court is the one responsible for the current interpretation of the Second Amendment. What happens after President Clinton gets a Democratic president to name five new justices over eight years? The Constitution is as living as Scalia is dead The court is not as friendly to “secret lists” as you seem to think. As has been said multiple times: fix the problems with the list and then let’s talk about using it to abridge the rights of Americans. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/162 "2016-06-23T16:58:34Z")
Why? If we commit to doing both, what’s the big deal? Did anyone lately get gunned down by a cancelled airline reservation? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/163 "2016-06-23T16:59:14Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > We shall see. I think the tide has turned. At one time, opposition to SSM was a sure fire winner for Republicans. That time is over. I predict at some time the support for guns may be an albatross rather than an asset. Trends always move towards more freedom, not less. The gun debate has been no exception. The 60s and 70s were the high water mark for gun controllers. It’s been downhill ever since, with the exception of a few pieces of legislation enacted in response to periods of high emotion. They might even get something passed now. But forget gun ownership, concealed carry is being liberalized all over the country. The gun controllers are losing the war. As for the Supreme Court decision you criticized, all Heller does is prevent total gun bans like the handgun bans some states had. There has never been a time in this country when gun ownership wasn’t a basic right in practice, whether or not it was recognized by the courts. The government can control certain classes of weapons, but the right to own a firearm of some sort is ironclad if you’re a law abiding citizen. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/164 "2016-06-23T17:02:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Trends always move towards more freedom, not less… Well, OK, then. Certainly settles that! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/165 "2016-06-23T17:23:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The court is not as friendly to “secret lists” as you seem to think. As has been said multiple times: fix the problems with the list and then let’s talk about using it to abridge the rights of Americans. I told you how to fix the list. It will work, and is the only way to do it. The list is a sideshow, anyway. No matter how many times you try to move it into the main tent it won’t take. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/166 "2016-06-23T17:51:56Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > This post speaks for itself. How so? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/167 "2016-06-23T18:04:37Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I told you how to fix the list. It will work, and is the only way to do it. When your idea, or something else, gets passed thru Congress that’s when it will be fixed. It’s nice that you told us how to fix it, now all you have to do is convince Congress to follow your plan! > [@](#): > > The list is a sideshow, anyway. No matter how many times you try to move it into the main tent it won’t take. You’ll have to take that up with the OP, or start your own thread: > [@OP](#): > > …Remember that removing the gun-buying rights of people on the no-fly list is something agreed upon by both sides… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/168 "2016-06-23T18:15:47Z")
Just sitting here trying to remember all the firm and resolute statements made by our political leaders in opposition to the dreadful “taking away” of rights by the “no fly” list. Offhand, can’t seem to recall any. Of course, my memory isn’t what it used to be. Or maybe it is, and I just don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/169 "2016-06-23T18:17:15Z")
Can I be forgiven for mentioning once again that the last 2 big Islamic jihad inspired shootings were not done by people on a terror watchlist? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/170 "2016-06-23T18:35:36Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Can I be forgiven for mentioning once again that the last 2 big Islamic jihad inspired shootings were not done by people on a terror watchlist? I don’t think pointing to facts is going to sway the folks in this thread who are convinced this is a good idea. But it’s worth mentioning again, IMHO and FWIW… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/171 "2016-06-23T18:40:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Just sitting here trying to remember all the firm and resolute statements made by our political leaders in opposition to the dreadful “taking away” of rights by the “no fly” list. Offhand, can’t seem to recall any. > > Of course, my memory isn’t what it used to be. Or maybe it is, and I just don’t remember. To be fair, I’m not 100% certain that rights were not taken away, but if I had to bet, I’d so none. Which one or ones do you think were taken away? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/172 "2016-06-23T18:49:13Z")
Sure seems the 4th amendment is being gutted. No? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/173 "2016-06-23T18:52:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You’ll have to take that up with the OP, or start your own thread: My views have evolved. Seriously, I was lazy and based it on what I had just read. Because, as I’ve said repeatedly, I considered that aspect of the issue so thoroughly minor and meaningless it never occurred to me that anyone thought it was the important piece. (Besides, Trump came out for it and that was too good a burn to let lie.) After reading through this thread I am more convinced of that than ever. If the no-fly zone were the issue, then the Republicans would have allowed the bill to come to the floor, trashed the Democrats on the rights issue, and voted the bill down. They did no such thing. Why? Because there were more than one bill (or amendments to various bills) that covered different restrictions, because most of them actually wanted some of these restrictions, because the public heavily wants some of these restrictions, and because the NRA wants nothing to be done. Somewhat amazingly, I’m saying that the House Republicans have a far better read on the political reality of the issue than the voices here. And, of course, so do the Democrats. That’s the point I will continue to make. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/174 "2016-06-23T19:01:41Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Sure seems the 4th amendment is being gutted. No? I don’t know. Tell us why you think it is. Just to be clear, I don’t think the government SHOULD have the ability to limit your travel based on being on a secret list, but that’s not the same thing as whether or not our present government does have that authority. The 4ht is about unreasonable search and seizure. Not seeing a search or a seizure here. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/175 "2016-06-23T19:13:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t know. Tell us why you think it is. I might have mistook your answer to elucidator as a comment to the more general “are we losing/gaining losing rights”. If thats actually the case then the Monday Supreme Court decision is yet another one of the many exceptions that have been carved out of the 4th. If I was mistaken, I don’t have any position on what rights are taken away by the no-fly list. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/176 "2016-06-23T19:34:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > To be fair, I’m not 100% certain that rights were not taken away, but if I had to bet, I’d so none. Which one or ones do you think were taken away? The right to travel internationally as recognized by[Kent v. Dulles.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_v._Dulles) > [@](#): > > the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the right to travel is a part of the “liberty” of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. This was identified in the [lawsuit that the ACLU won in district court](https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/no_fly_list_ruling__-_latif_v._holder_-_6-24-14.pdf), and has continued to push through the process as the remedies offered by the government have not been sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/177 "2016-06-23T19:42:21Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I might have mistook your answer to elucidator as a comment to the more general “are we losing/gaining losing rights”. If thats actually the case then the Monday Supreme Court decision is yet another one of the many exceptions that have been carved out of the 4th. If I was mistaken, I don’t have any position on what rights are taken away by the no-fly list. Due process, which is impacting rights to travel and to reputation. And, if this scheme were to go forward, 2nd amendment rights to go along with those pesky 5th. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/178 "2016-06-23T20:12:22Z")
Don’t forget equal protection, since we know that the No Fly List is basically a compilation of Muslims, Arabs, and South Asians who someone “saw something, and said something” about. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/179 "2016-06-23T20:14:30Z")
All good stuff. Wonder if John might form an opinion now. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060/180 "2016-06-23T20:17:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > They are not entitled to a vote on any given issue. Elections have consequences, remember? More people voted for Democrats in the last election than Republicans. The Republicans manipulated the district lines to dilute the Democratic vote. Gerrymandering is the epitome of obstructionism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-hold-sit-in-on-house-floor/758060.md?page=10)