# Democrats Leaving Party Over "Socialism" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 28, 2019, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651 "2019-03-28T07:39:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/21 "2019-03-28T15:05:32Z")
Preach it! My so-called independent mother claims she votes for the person not the party. Funny how from any office from dog catcher to President, that person has a R next to their name. I snapped at her after too much wine one night and told her the last time she voted for a Democrat was JFK! ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/22 "2019-03-28T15:40:08Z")
I’ll step up and say I am a registered Democrat and I am immensely turned off by Sanders, AOC, etc. whom I would lump into the “progressive wing”. I would never consider voting for Trump, or in fact any Republican for any office, but I will be immensely unhappy if Sanders is the nominee or if the Democratic Party becomes the party of AOC-like members. I would most likely move my party affiliation to Independent, stop donating, and if my choice in an election is Extreme Left vs. Extreme Right I’d start abstaining from voting. I disdain extremism in all its forms and in my view this new “progressive wing” is just another version of The Tea Party within the Republican Party. Sanders, AOC, et.al, are more interested in ideological purity and tilting at their pet boogeymen. There seems to be no consideration for actual effective and obtainable governance that moves important Democratic policy positions forward. If you are in the Democratic Party today and voice any opposition to the progressive left, you are being made to feel very unwelcome. The progressive left of AOC and Sanders have even borrowed the Tea Party approach of labeling anyone in the Democratic Party who doesn’t provide full-throated 100 support behind every word that falls from their mouths as Democrats-In-Name-Only (DINO). They seem to have zero comprehension how the rest of the country views their message or approach to complex issues and they no care for the consequences of their sweeping policy positions would have on real-life people. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/23 "2019-03-28T15:59:59Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > Sanders, AOC, et.al, are more interested in ideological purity and tilting at their pet boogeymen. There seems to be no consideration for actual effective and obtainable governance that moves important Democratic policy positions forward. If you are in the Democratic Party today and voice any opposition to the progressive left, you are being made to feel very unwelcome. The progressive left of AOC and Sanders have even borrowed the Tea Party approach of labeling anyone in the Democratic Party who doesn’t provide full-throated 100 support behind every word that falls from their mouths as Democrats-In-Name-Only (DINO). Both Sanders and AOC are supporting the moderate approach of fixing the ACA now rather than insisting on their progressive plan of Medicare for All. [Progressives Support Shoring Up ACA Before Tackling Medicare For All](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-aca-democrats-array-ocasio-cortez-health-care-medicare_n_5c9bc9f9e4b072a7f603a718) > [@](#): > ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/24 "2019-03-28T16:08:26Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Preach it! My so-called independent mother claims she votes for the person not the party. Funny how from any office from dog catcher to President, that person has a R next to their name. I snapped at her after too much wine one night and told her the last time she voted for a Democrat was JFK! My favorite is, “I didn’t leave the Democratic party; the Democratic party left me.” Now let’s see, exactly when did that Democratic party leave these people? Was that in 1948, when Truman integrated the military, or was that in 1964-68, when the Democrats started rolling out civil rights legislation? Translation: “_I liked the Democrats better when they were the party of Woodrow Wilson and Stephen Douglas – well, I liked Douglas, at least_.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/25 "2019-03-28T18:36:07Z")
I totally believe the description of events in the OP is happening, prolly everywhere in the country. By the time Election Day 2020 rolls around, there likely won’t be but a couple hundred Democrats left in the country! ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/26 "2019-03-28T18:36:47Z")
Just tell folks that electing folks like AOC is necessary as long as the Republicans elect folks like Louis Gohmert, Mo Brooks, and Steve King. We’re just trying to keep the center in, well, the center. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/27 "2019-03-28T18:41:36Z")
Published on CNBC 21 hours ago. [Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/majority-of-americans-support-progressive-policies-such-as-paid-maternity-leave-free-college.html) > [@](#): > > A CNBC survey finds majority support for five of six proposals that have been percolating in the national debate mostly. > . . . > These include paid maternity leave, government funding for childcare and boosting the minimum wage. > . . . > The CNBC All-America Economic Survey was conducted March 18-21 of 800 Americans nationwide. Paid maternity leave 84% support Gov’t funding for childcare 75% support Boosting minimum wage 60% support Tuition free public/state college 57% support Medicare for all 54% support > [@](#): > > On some of the issues, the survey even found majority Republican support. > . . . > "These are bread and butter kitchen table issues that families are dealing with if you’re making less than $75,000 and I think that’s contributing to the fairly high Republican support numbers,‘’ said Micah Roberts, partner at Public Opinion Strategies, the Republican pollster for the survey. When people say that Progressive policies aren’t popular with the American people, they’re not only wrong about the Democrats, they’re wrong about many Independents and Republicans as well. The majority of Americans support a number of Progressive issues, some even with a majority of Republican support. > [@sciurophobic](#): > > Both Sanders and AOC are supporting the moderate approach of fixing the ACA now rather than insisting on their progressive plan of Medicare for All. > > [Progressives Support Shoring Up ACA Before Tackling Medicare For All](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-aca-democrats-array-ocasio-cortez-health-care-medicare_n_5c9bc9f9e4b072a7f603a718) I’m surprised anyone would think that the legislators supporting Medicare for all would be OK with millions of people losing their coverage under the ACA simply because Medicare for all can’t yet be passed. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/28 "2019-03-28T18:56:37Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Published on CNBC 21 hours ago. > > [Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/majority-of-americans-support-progressive-policies-such-as-paid-maternity-leave-free-college.html) > > Paid maternity leave 84% support > Gov’t funding for childcare 75% support > Boosting minimum wage 60% support > Tuition free public/state college 57% support > Medicare for all 54% support > > When people say that Progressive policies aren’t popular with the American people, they’re not only wrong about the Democrats, they’re wrong about many Independents and Republicans as well. From your cite - > [@](#): > > When it comes to paying for these proposals, Americans are not shy about supporting higher taxes on the wealthy but they balk when it comes to taxing themselves. Sixty-one percent back the proposal from Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., to tax wealth in excess of $50 million. And 58 percent back an idea, loosely tied to comments from Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, to boost taxes on the wealthy to 70 percent on earnings above $10 million. Only 46 percent of the public supports repealing the 2017 tax cuts and just 30 percent want to eliminate all deductions, such as for home mortgages and charitable giving. The Democratic spin on the 2017 tax cuts, that they were just a benefit for the rich, doesn’t seem to be working. It would be interesting to run the figures, and find out how much the tax on wealth over $50 million and incomes over $10 million would raise, and then re-ask the questions. People want freebies. As your survey shows, this is hardly confined to Democrats. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/29 "2019-03-28T19:18:30Z")
Well, yes, they were just a benefit for the rich. A lot of middle-class folks saw their own personal taxes rise in the “cut”. Which Democratic policies were the ones supported by a majority of Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/30 "2019-03-28T20:09:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > From your cite - The Democratic spin on the 2017 tax cuts, that they were just a benefit for the rich, doesn’t seem to be working. It might not be a majority, but tax season isn’t over yet, and 46% is getting pretty close to a majority. I’d like to see that one revisited later in the year. > [@Shodan](#): > > It would be interesting to run the figures, and find out how much the tax on wealth over $50 million and incomes over $10 million would raise, and then re-ask the questions. > [@](#): > > It is projected that the tax would raise about $2.75 trillion in revenue over 10 years. To get a sense of that magnitude, recall that the Trump tax cuts lost less revenue (just under $2 trillion) than this tax allegedly gains. That’s a lot of tax progressivity pushing back on the highly regressive Trump cuts. [Sen. Warren’s plan to tax the ultrawealthy is a smart idea whose time has come in The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/24/senator-warrens-plan-tax-ultrawealthy-is-smart-idea-whose-time-has-come/?noredirect=on) $2.75T over 10 years. In which direction do you think this would affect the survey? > [@Shodan](#): > > People want freebies. As your survey shows, this is hardly confined to Democrats. > > Regards, > Shodan Oddly though, people didn’t go for UBI, which is a freebie. I don’t think there’s enough awareness about that for people to know what it is. Regards, Heffalump and Roo > [@Chronos](#): > > Which Democratic policies were the ones supported by a majority of Republicans? The government-supported childcare (56%) and paid maternity leave (73%) had majority Republican support. The article mentioned something about Trump, but I didn’t understand the reference. > [@](#): > > Importantly, the survey finds that four of the proposals — on maternity leave, child care, raising the minimum wage and tuition free college — have majority support in Republican congressional districts. But the pollsters are skeptical this means any of these proposal will be enacted. But the last two, miniumum wage and tuition free college, don’t have majority Republican support overall, based on the article. I’m not sure what distinction they’re drawing there between majority Republican support and majority support in Republican congressional districts. I should also add that I don’t know which of the policies originated as Democratic. Even ACA wasn’t originated as a Democratic policy. The policies in the survey are getting pushed on the Progressive platform now though. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/31 "2019-03-28T20:16:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > So in the end there’s no proof that any Democrats have left the party because of socialism. > > This is a complete exoneration of the Democratic Party. > [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > I see what you did here. I don’t dislike it. **Red Wiggler** is in LOVE with it and wants to MARRY IT! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/32 "2019-03-28T20:42:28Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > [Sen. Warren’s plan to tax the ultrawealthy is a smart idea whose time has come in The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/24/senator-warrens-plan-tax-ultrawealthy-is-smart-idea-whose-time-has-come/?noredirect=on) > > $2.75T over 10 years. In which direction do you think this would affect the survey? Depends if people believe $275 billion is enough to pay for free tuition and M4A. (It won’t - it won’t even eliminate the current deficit.) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/33 "2019-03-28T21:16:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Depends if people believe $275 billion is enough to pay for free tuition and M4A. (It won’t - it won’t even eliminate the current deficit.) Haha. That’s like comparing apples and oranges, then throwing in some mangoes and coconut. It would be difficult to eliminate the current deficit when the latest tax plan just blasted a $2T hole in it. If people aren’t worried about that, I don’t see why they’d be worried about eliminating it. Free tuition is [estimated](https://www.fastcompany.com/3055603/how-much-would-bernie-sanders-plan-to-make-college-free-actually-cost) to be $75B a year by Bernie Sanders back in 2016. If that’s a decent estimate, then the $275B should easily cover that. As for Medicare for all, the messaging has to include the idea that the increase in tax would be offset by the decrease in insurance premiums and medical expenses not covered by insurance. As long as that’s a wash, people wouldn’t be worse off. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/34 "2019-03-29T01:41:17Z")
Re: the OP, they could be real-life concern trolls. But even if they’re not, you’re always going to have some small percentage of wing nuts of any political persuasion. And IME it’s the wing nuts who are more likely to call or write. Absent polling, it’s hard take anything useful from individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/35 "2019-03-29T12:04:05Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > As for Medicare for all, the messaging has to include the idea that the increase in tax would be offset by the decrease in insurance premiums and medical expenses not covered by insurance. As long as that’s a wash, people wouldn’t be worse off. We’ve discussed this a lot here. It won’t be a wash. If we cut significantly on administrative costs, AND if we reduce payments to doctors and health care providers such that they lose money on 80% of their patients, AND significantly cut drug costs, AND double personal and corporate income taxes, that _ **will not** _ cover M4A. Doubling taxes on everyone - everyone, not “the rich”, not “the 1%”, not “the other guy” - instead of insurance premiums will not cover M4A. So, if Democrats try to include the idea that tax increases will be offset by reducing insurance premiums, they will be lying. Maybe they can get away with it - as I said, people love free stuff. Maybe this time “the average family will see its premiums go down by $2500 a year and your taxes will double” will work. Maybe. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/36 "2019-03-29T13:20:32Z")
> [@leavesoflight](#): > > This is a good point I hadn’t thought of. I wouldn’t know or be able to check if they were actually registered Democrats. What? Why not? In most states which primary people vote in is a matter of public record. You should be able to look it up in 10 minutes. It’s not a perfect measure of whether someone is a ‘registered democrat’ or not but it’s pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/37 "2019-03-29T13:25:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > My favorite is, “I didn’t leave the Democratic party; the Democratic party left me.” Yeah, my dad brought that one out a year or so back. Without thinking, I snapped back, “Yeah, we kicked out all the racists.” It was a tense Thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/38 "2019-03-29T13:27:57Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Yeah, my dad brought that one out a year or so back. Without thinking, I snapped back, “Yeah, we kicked out all the racists.” > > It was a tense Thanksgiving. _Ippon_! Mr. Chance ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/39 "2019-03-29T13:31:05Z")
I love the way the people who voted Republican because they were Economic Conservatives have disappeared. Of course it was always just a cover for their various bigotries, they still vote Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651/40 "2019-03-29T13:36:04Z")
And, honestly, most of those who claim they won’t if AOC or Bernie or something take over still will. Especially with the older cohorts changing voting patterns is rare and changing it to an extent of voting for the other party is vanishingly rare. When you look at voting patterns you tend to find that even among so-called ‘independents’ there are very few who don’t consistently vote for one party or the other. They’re just not the sort to join or get involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-leaving-party-over-socialism/831651.md?page=3)