# Democrats, listen up if you'd like to win the election. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 10, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026 "2008-09-10T23:58:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/21 "2008-09-11T01:10:53Z")
Conservatives are all sunshine and optimism? Hmmmm…when I think conservative, I also think a lot of negativity. Specifically, I think of a lot of fear- Criminals are running wild, teens are doing drugs and having sex, illegal immigrants are stealing our jobs, terrorists are at the gates, the English language is dying, the education system is screwed, the nanny state is about to take over… Not saying you don’t have some points, but clearly this isn’t a liberals only problem. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/22 "2008-09-11T01:12:30Z")
A positive attitude is a good thing to have, no doubt about it. But I think this is just part of the big picture. The truth is, both sides have a bit of “You’re getting screwed!” message to it. The left says that average people are getting screwed economically. The right says that average people are getting screwed culturally. Both can be effective. The left has an advantage in that they can actually have a plan to make things better, which is something voters pay attention to. Sometime economic hardships are harped on by both sides. It’s hard not to notice that both candidates like to remind Americans how their jobs are going overseas, and how they will stop this somehow. I don’t think they would say things like this unless they really felt it would help win votes. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/23 "2008-09-11T01:13:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, how could my thesis survive the loss of such an upbeat, happy campaigner as John Kerry? Yeah, I’m sure if Kerry had only followed your advice and campaigned more positively in the face of his swiftboating, he would’ve won. :rolleyes: > [@SamStone](#): > > Look, despite the title, this isn’t just about Democrats. The Republicans turned into a bunch of moral scolds, and their popularity plummeted. McCain runs a real risk of blowing his campaign too if he keeps up this stupid “lipstick on a pig” attack. Watch Obama crush him with some humor, fairly soon. Because Obama is smart that way. He’ll come out soon and say something that makes McCain look petty, and turn the identity-politics tables on him. Mark my word. The negative campaigning against Kerry’s war record, the scaring of the American populace regarding terrorism and Dem’s alleged weakness fighting it, and the culture WAR (notice how the right doesn’t call it a culture "happy fun pillow fight?) won the election in 2004. The hypocrisy of now calling for an end of negative campaigning is silly. But, you do have the shell of a point. Americans don’t want JUST negative campaigning (unless it’s done by Republicans apparently), they want, get this HOPE. They want to believe that things can be better. And there is only one candidate who has made that a constant part of his campaign. If your advice holds true, Obama should positively CRUSH McCain. Somehow, I don’t think that’s going to happen. And one thing. Palin is, in part, being loved BECAUSE she’s a negative campaigner. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/24 "2008-09-11T01:15:06Z")
McCain and Palin have that feel good thing going - right now. A lot like Obama did way back in the winter of 2008. But Obama has been of way off his game since the Palin announcement. As the original Obama supporters used to say, Hillary had no plan after “Super Tuesday.” Obama was going to run against a third Bush term. But Palin makes McCain look like a maverick again, and McCain/Palin then took the change message from Obama. Considering the lack of experience tag against Obama didn’t work when Hillary or McCain used it; Palin and change became McCain’s plan B. So far, I don’t see a plan B form Obama. I hope he finds it SOON. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/25 "2008-09-11T01:18:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And anyway, if you didn’t want to read the OP and just came here to snark, why aren’t you doing it in the pit? Because I don’t need to use my poopy mouth to show how lame your “advice” is. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/26 "2008-09-11T01:26:16Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It’s that simple. Why do you think Ronald Reagan was such a successful president, and so beloved by many? Why do you think Jimmy Carter was such a failure? Reagan was good on TV. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Americans look to their Presidents for inspiration. They want to feel good about themselves, and about their lives. They want to be told that they’re not all going to hell, that the economy isn’t about to collapse on their heads, that they have a long list of grievances that must be addressed, and that America is evil and bad and needs to be changed. Then why did they re-elect Bush, who **isn’t** inspiring? And (as already Hamlet mentioned), Bush kept mentioning terrorism. You should provide a cite for a Democrat stating that ‘America is evil and bad and needs to be changed.’ > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Along comes Sarah Palin. She’s not looking for ‘help’. She doesn’t feel oppressed. Her speech was a huge success because it _wasn’t_ a typical laundry list of problems and programs to solve those problems. There she was, a mother of five from nowhere, with a family full of their own problems, but she’s not complaining. She wants to do more. She kicks ass and takes names, and does it with a smile. Americans _love_ that. It’s pleasant that she’s one of the first few female candidates. But the reason that Republicans ( **not** Americans) love her is that she is right-wing on anti-abortion, gun control and Creationism. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is the same attitude that just couldn’t figure out why the religious right was giving Palin a pass on her pregnant daughter. The reason is because these troubles make her own rise MORE compelling. Her family’s apparent happiness and success MORE lauditory. Everyone’s got kids with problems. Lots of people have had DUIs or smoked some pot or done something else they’re not proud of. The religious right are giving Palin a pass because she is right-wing on anti-abortion, gun control and Creationism. (Plus there’s no time to replace her.) If a Democratic candidate had an unmarried pregnant daughter, the Republican machine would produce endless ads about it. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You can sell the liberal agenda. Not to the religious right. They’d rather burn in Hell. Look, America is a very divided country. There are many voters who will stick with their party whatever happens. Your argument about being cheerful can only apply to a small minority i.e. the swing voters. As for Republicans being ‘upbeat’ and ‘not involving candidates’ children’, do you not remember Bush smearing McCain in Carolina? “Would you vote for McCain if he had a black baby?” If Palin was a Democrat, Karl Rove would be all over her daughter’s pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/27 "2008-09-11T01:28:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Conservatives are all sunshine and optimism? Hello? \ \ Is this mike on? Did I accidentally put invisibility tags around my text? > [@Hamlet](#): > > The negative campaigning against Kerry’s war record, the scaring of the American populace regarding terrorism and Dem’s alleged weakness fighting it, and the culture WAR (notice how the right doesn’t call it a culture "happy fun pillow fight?) won the election in 2004. The hypocrisy of now calling for an end of negative campaigning is silly. Of course, it’s true that negative campaigning works. But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m not talking about going negative at your opponent. I’m talking about going negative with the American Public. When Carter gave his ‘malaise’ speech, the people _hated_ him for it. it was even true. But no one wants to be told how much their life sucks. Again, it might work for you a bit - convince enough people that their lives suck and that you can stop it from sucking, and they might vote for you. But they won’t love you. This is the root of the problem of why the left can’t connect with the folks in the flyover states. You may not believe this, but they don’t think their lives suck. Oh, they believe that there’s lots of suckitude around, but they don’t think it’s them. Poll after poll shows this - ask people in the midwest how they’re personally doing, and they’ll tell you they’re doing fine. Ask them how the midwest in general is doing, and they’ll say it sucks. The Presidency is a unique office. Americans don’t have a monarch. Britons don’t mind bland, dour prime ministers who live in an apartment, because they’ve got a Queen. Americans don’t, so the office of the Presidency is more than just a chief executive position. They want their Presidents to inspire. They want them to be larger than life, to be great stories and bring with them the promise of great things. Reagan had that. Kennedy had it. Clinton even had it. He was the happiest, most upbeat Democrat I’ve seen in the Presidency. That’s why he survived scandal after scandal. Because the kind of scandals he had were the kind regular people often have, and they could sympathize. But what’s more, he survived them with style. He was still the good old boy who you just knew would be a hoot to go drinking with. He was sort of the male Palin - he had plenty of troubles, but hell if he was going to let them get him down. And he also gave uplifting speeches. He could ‘feel your pain’, but he could also show you how to party. > [@](#): > > But, you do have the shell of a point. Americans don’t want JUST negative campaigning (unless it’s done by Republicans apparently), they want, get this HOPE. They want to believe that things can be better. They also want to believe that things aren’t so bad. They don’t want to be told their lives aren’t horrible. > [@](#): > > If your advice holds true, Obama should positively CRUSH McCain. Somehow, I don’t think that’s going to happen. He was crushing McCain… Until Palin came along. She’s doing everything I said. She’s out-Obama’d Obama in the uplifting story and happy demeanor department. We’ll see if it stays that way. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/28 "2008-09-11T01:29:38Z")
I think it has more to do with [fewer voting machines in Democratic-heavy precincts](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/26/opinion/26tue4.html) than anything you’ve said here. > [@](#): > > The Washington Post reported that six of the seven wards with the fewest voting machines per registered voter backed John Kerry, while 27 of the 30 wards with the most machines per registered voter went for President Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/29 "2008-09-11T01:29:42Z")
> [@kevja](#): > > So far, I don’t see a plan B form Obama. > > I hope he finds it SOON. If Obama can’t adapt his strategy to meet an unforeseen challenge, as much as I hate to say it I think it might be better if McCain wins. I want someone who’s willing and able to take in new data and act on it, as Bush didn’t do, and at the very least McCain has advisors who’ve been able to do that. Palin probably wouldn’t have been nearly as good a response to Clinton as she was to Obama. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/30 "2008-09-11T01:29:56Z")
I am findiing that I am largely in agreement with **Sam Stone**. Hmm. That doesn’t happen often. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/31 "2008-09-11T02:21:36Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This is the same attitude that just couldn’t figure out why the religious right was giving Palin a pass on her pregnant daughter. The reason is because these troubles make her own rise MORE compelling. Her family’s apparent happiness and success MORE lauditory. Everyone’s got kids with problems. Lots of people have had DUIs or smoked some pot or done something else they’re not proud of. > > The ‘old’ Republican moral majority would have scolded such people - told them they’d lost their way with God, that they were sinners, etc. The same downbeat, hectoring attitude liberals use. But Palin doesn’t give a hoot about that. She’s up there smiling and cracking jokes and telling everyone life’s good. Trouble? Sure, everyone’s got trouble. What, that’s going to stop you from achieving? Nut up! Grow a pair. Life is fun, warts and all. I’m quoting this part of your post, **Sam** , because I think there has definitely been a shift in the attitude of the religious, evangelical-type Christians. Go to any of those mega churches, and there are a ton of them, and all you will hear is a message of positiveness, love, and forgiveness. They are stealing parishoners away from Catholic and traditional mainline Protestant denominations by focusing away from guilt and heavy-handed moral messages, and welcoming everyone with a warm embrace and an offer to help them with their problems. I’m not saying that the Fred Phelps of the world have disappeared entirely, but that judgmental, fire-and-brimstone thing isn’t working that well with middle America anymore, and the churches are wising up to that. People aren’t ashamed by teen pregancies and drug problems the way they used to be, and they are a lot less finger-wagging over it. I’m not the least bit surprised that Sarah Palin hasn’t had a negative reaction from the religious right…plenty of them are in her exact position, dealing with kids that are a little (or a lot) out of control. If anything, her attitude of taking it all in stride is going to maker her more attractive to them, as you say. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/32 "2008-09-11T02:22:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Americans look to their Presidents for inspiration. They want to feel good about themselves, and about their lives. . “Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.” - **The Princess Bride** ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/33 "2008-09-11T02:50:34Z")
I actually agree with Sam … up to a point. The actual candidates should be unfailingly upbeat, offering a message of hope, success and opportunity. No negativity whatsoever, each problem a challenge that Americans can and will beat if we just do our best. Your average voter loves that kind of swill, no matter which party it comes from. But here’s the thing. As has been pointed out, the Pubbies didn’t win in 2000 and 2004 on upbeat campaigning alone. They won with dirty tricks (remember the manipulation of the Florida voting rolls?), negative campaigning (remember the telephone push polls that did in McCain in the South Carolina primary against Bush? Remember Swiftboating?) and generally lying their asses off and getting away with it because the media is no longer a bunch of watchdogs, they’re a bunch of fucking lapdogs. That stinking scumbag Karl Rove pulled dirty tricks and rigged elections in the close states whenever he could. The Democrats need to do the same thing: have their actual candidates be upbeat, but hire a bunch of real scum to do the negative campaigning and the dirty tricks (or at very least, counter Pubbie dirty tricks) and lying to and manipulating the media buffoons as much as possible. You need to use BOTH approaches to win. You won’t win an election treating your opponents with kid gloves when they are using brass knuckles on you. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/34 "2008-09-11T02:54:30Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > I think it has more to do with [fewer voting machines in Democratic-heavy precincts](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/26/opinion/26tue4.html) than anything you’ve said here. Christ. Are you really going there already. Come on. Here we go again with the in case we lose argument from the Democrats. The Republicans are cheating again! If there was ANY proof that the Republicans rigged the elections in 2000 or 2004 don’t you think that maybe the Democrats could find some evidence by now? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/35 "2008-09-11T02:55:40Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > “Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.” - **The Princess Bride** Man, that sounds like a slogan you could ride all the way to victory! I suggest you try that. > [@glee](#): > > It’s pleasant that she’s one of the first few female candidates. But the reason that Republicans (not Americans) love her is that she is right-wing on anti-abortion, gun control and Creationism. Right. That’s why McCain went from losing independents to Obama to being up 15% among independents since Palin joined the ticket. That’s why white women, who were favoring Obama two weeks ago, now heavily favor McCain. Feminists have been the worst of the lot for being dour scolds. They don’t just want women to be empowered - they want women to fit a narrow ideology - _their_ ideology. They don’t want happy, married women who are religious and have five children and vote Republican and don’t want to abort their babies. Those aren’t ‘real’ feminists, no matter how powerful they are, no matter how many glass ceilings they break through, no matter how happy they are being women. But you know what? Most women consider themselves feminists, and a whole lot of them are religious and have families. Feminism should be a big damned tent, but it’s not. It’s a narrow little club of women who are angry at the world and demand conformity above all else. That’s why they’re are going at Palin with a fury. They should _like_ her example, if not her personally. She’s made her own choices. Unlike Hillary Clinton, she didn’t ride a man’s coattails to the top. She did it all on her own. She’s exactly who she wants to be, doing exactly what she wants to do, and she’s wildly successful at it. This will not do. Why, other women might decide they too can be feminists without having to join the Democratic party and pick up all the other baggage the feminists demand. This is also why Palin is so popular with regular women right now - including a lot of pro-abortion women. She’s showing them that it’s okay to be a feminist and still be happy, not aggrieved, have children and be proud of it, etc. The tent for feminism is a lot bigger when Palin is in it, and all those women who never felt comfortable following Gloria Steinem are finding Palin a breath of fresh air. She’s empowering them, and that’s a direct threat to the old guard, and it threatens to break the bond between feminism and left-wing politics. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/36 "2008-09-11T03:02:15Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I actually agree with Sam … up to a point. The actual candidates should be unfailingly upbeat, offering a message of hope, success and opportunity. No negativity whatsoever, each problem a challenge that Americans can and will beat if we just do our best. Your average voter loves that kind of swill, no matter which party it comes from. > > But here’s the thing. As has been pointed out, the Pubbies didn’t win in 2000 and 2004 on upbeat campaigning alone. They won with dirty tricks (remember the manipulation of the Florida voting rolls?), negative campaigning (remember the telephone push polls that did in McCain in the South Carolina primary against Bush? Remember Swiftboating?) and generally lying their asses off and getting away with it because the media is no longer a bunch of watchdogs, they’re a bunch of fucking lapdogs. That stinking scumbag Karl Rove pulled dirty tricks and rigged elections in the close states whenever he could. > > The Democrats need to do the same thing: have their actual candidates be upbeat, but hire a bunch of real scum to do the negative campaigning and the dirty tricks (or at very least, counter Pubbie dirty tricks) and lying to and manipulating the media buffoons as much as possible. You need to use BOTH approaches to win. You won’t win an election treating your opponents with kid gloves when they are using brass knuckles on you. Thank goodness someone gets it. The issue of dirty campaigning is completely separate from what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the message you send to voters, not the way in which you conduct the campaign against the other guy. McCain’s problem right now isn’t just that he’s playing dirty tricks against Obama, it’s that he’s co-opting the negative identity politics that send a negative message to his followers. They’re jazzed up right now and want to hear how great things are. They’re hyped because Palin is tough, female, and on their side. And suddenly McCain’s camp is yelling, “He’s being mean to a WOMAN! It’s not fair! Any metaphor that isn’t perfectly complimentary will be seen not just as an insult, but as an affront to womanhood!”. In short, the same kind of hyper-sensitivity to imagined slights that people are really sick of when it comes from radical feminists. Right now, a lot of Republicans are looking at each other and saying, “WTF? OUR guy is saying that?” Palin needs to get out in front of this and say, “Calm down boys. No harm, no foul. And hey Obama, I’ll take you up on that game of hoops as soon as the election is over, no matter who wins. I saw your 3-pointer - not bad! Did I mention they called me the Barracuda?” Delivered with a smile and a wink. If she does that, she’ll be even more popular. If she comes out and joins McCain’s chorus of woe, I guarantee you we’ll see a precipitous drop in her approval rating. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/37 "2008-09-11T04:42:23Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Okay, I’m going to let you in on an open secret. I can tell you why Democrats continually lose Presidential elections. The 22nd Amendment? Without it, I bet Bill Clinton would be trying for his fifth term. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/38 "2008-09-11T05:02:59Z")
I must say I’m delighted to see so many left-wing posters here covering their ears and shouting LALALALALA…I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!! ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/39 "2008-09-11T05:15:33Z")
geez…the pubbies pretty much hold the world record in fear mongering and negative campaigning. Palin is doing this? Where? Her speech was all about mocking her opponents. Dems keep losing because they suck at dirty tricks and mud slinging compared to the pubbies. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026/40 "2008-09-11T05:34:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I must say I’m delighted to see so many left-wing posters here covering their ears and shouting LALALALALA…I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!! I’m not covering my ears and shouting LALALALA. I simply don’t think VOTE FOR ME OR THE TERRORISTS WILL KILL YOU ALL is a very positive message. YMMV. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-listen-up-if-youd-like-to-win-the-election/463026.md?page=3)