# Democrats need their own InfoWars (If you can't beat 'em...)) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 13, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576 "2016-12-13T01:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/1 "2016-12-13T01:44:07Z")
[Donald Trump spied for the Soviets in the 1980’s.](http://www.infoweapons.moc/confirmed_trump_spied_for_russian_in_1986.html) This has been confirmed by multiple former FBI agents as well as a soon-to-be-named former Deputy Secretary of State - more than the Constitutionally requisite number of witnesses to convict Trump of treason, a capital offense. The story will be published by the Washington Post in the coming days, unless Trump’s people intimidate them into silence. We can’t let that happen! Now, I hope you didn’t click on that link, because it doesn’t go anywhere. My point is, maybe it should. The Republicans have successfully weaponized the lie. Aren’t Democrats left at a disadvantage if they don’t fight fire with fire? By the way, for those of you rushing to post that DailyKos and DU are the same as InfoWars and Drudge (they’re not), I’m not interested in arguing that point, but thanks in advance for your contribution to this thread. For the rest of you, those who want to take the high road, I respect that, but I’m not sure there is a high road anymore. Maybe the only hope for the Truth to come back into style is for the information channels to (sorry) totally jump the shark. To get SO poisonous, and SO bizarre, that the only people who continue to pay attention are the ones with the interest and motivation to actually think critically about stuff again. But seriously, never mind any of that, back to what this thread is really about: Do you think these revelations about Trump’s espionage activities will prevent him from taking office? Do you think congressional Repubs will sweep it under the rug if he does? This is a serious matter, and I really want to know what all you guys think. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/2 "2016-12-13T02:00:23Z")
More than 8 years ago democrats did have their own Infowars. It was called Infowars. Then Alex Jones was all about Bush and 911 conspiracies. It’s always been about how who was in power is conspiring against us. I mentioned in another thread that it will be interesting to see if Jones stays with this and comes up with Trump conspiracies or if he figures being on the right wing is more lucrative. It will be difficult because false flags and conspiracies come from the party in power. Alex Jones is some mixture of batshit crazy and con man. It’s hard to tell where one part ends and the other begins. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/3 "2016-12-13T02:11:56Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > More than 8 years ago democrats did have their own Infowars. It was called Infowars. Then Alex Jones was all about Bush and 911 conspiracies. It’s always been about how who was in power is conspiring against us. I mentioned in another thread that it will be interesting to see if Jones stays with this and comes up with Trump conspiracies or if he figures being on the right wing is more lucrative. It will be difficult because false flags and conspiracies come from the party in power. Alex Jones is some mixture of batshit crazy and con man. It’s hard to tell where one part ends and the other begins. Maybe, but his profile is pretty high now compared to then, especially since he’s being [fluffed by the man himself.](http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/10/07/trump-reportedly-praised-alex-jones-having-one-greatest-influences-he-s-ever-seen/213616) It’ll be harder for him to pivot after that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/4 "2016-12-13T03:16:47Z")
[Someone beat you to it.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813335) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/5 "2016-12-13T05:29:28Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Maybe, but his profile is pretty high now compared to then, especially since he’s being [fluffed by the man himself.](http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/10/07/trump-reportedly-praised-alex-jones-having-one-greatest-influences-he-s-ever-seen/213616) It’ll be harder for him to pivot after that. Like I said, it depends on what his crazy to con man ration is. His profile is much higher now but his core fans are hardcore CTers, not just right wingers. He’s good friends with Jesse Ventura who is a left wing conspiracy nut. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/6 "2016-12-13T14:02:34Z")
Democrats do. They have Harry Reid(well, not anymore), who just spouts made up allegations from the floor of the Senate. But there’s also Common Dreams, Truthout, The Noam Chomsky fansites… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/7 "2016-12-13T14:10:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Democrats do. They have Harry Reid(well, not anymore), who just spouts made up allegations from the floor of the Senate. But there’s also Common Dreams, Truthout, The Noam Chomsky fansites… Seems to me you’re confusing unpleasant (from your point of view) truths with made-up allegations. In some ways, it’s impossible to compete with Republicans. AirAmerica failed because liberals don’t turn on echo chambers the way that Republicans do with Hate Radio. There aren’t any left wing alternatives to Fox News and One America News (Fox may get the hype but OAN is even more repulsive). You can point to MSNBC but does Fox have the liberal equivalent to Joe Scarborough? I think Democrats need to start making shit up and posting it all over Facebook. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/8 "2016-12-13T14:12:48Z")
Wow, Reid must be the luckiest man alive, that all of the allegations he made up coincidentally turned out to be true. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/9 "2016-12-13T14:24:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Seems to me you’re confusing unpleasant (from your point of view) truths with made-up allegations. > > In some ways, it’s impossible to compete with Republicans. AirAmerica failed because liberals don’t turn on echo chambers the way that Republicans do with Hate Radio. There aren’t any left wing alternatives to Fox News and One America News (Fox may get the hype but OAN is even more repulsive). You can point to MSNBC but does Fox have the liberal equivalent to Joe Scarborough? > > I think Democrats need to start making shit up and posting it all over Facebook. They already do that. The real issue is more structural. Democrats don’t have a base that responds to fake news. Democrats have people who are involved and interested and care about facts, and they have a much larger group that doesn’t give a crap and neither fake news or real facts can penetrate their apathy. Republicans, on the other hand, are a little different. They have a large group of people who can be motivated by fake news. And more Republicans are motivated than Democrats. So given these structural issues, what does Democratic fake news accomplish? We already know, because it exists. It motivates the far left, fact averse Chomskyites, who don’t matter anyway, and nobody else. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/10 "2016-12-13T14:27:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wow, Reid must be the luckiest man alive, that all of the allegations he made up coincidentally turned out to be true. He lied about Romney’s tax returns in 2012 and admitted it. Now he claims that the Trump campaign was actively working with Russia. Looks like fake news does work on Democrats after all. Two posters just said they think Harry Reid is telling the truth. Except he’s a known pants on fire liar, and he has no evidence to support his current fever dream either > **[Either Harry Reid has an explosive secret on Trump's Russia ties or he's just...](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/12/13928500/harry-reid-trump-russia)** > > The outgoing Senate majority leader is going full Harry Reid. > [@](#): > > Reid is also something of an unreliable narrator. In 2012, he falsely claimed to have seen Mitt Romney’s tax returns, and said that they showed Romney hadn’t paid taxes in more than a decade. Reid has since acknowledged lying about that charge, but hasn’t apologized. > > “Romney didn’t win, did he?” Reid said. “I don’t regret that at all.” What’s funny is that Reid can admit he’s a liar and Democrats still believe him. So I withdraw my last post. Democrats do believe fake news. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/11 "2016-12-13T15:40:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They already do that. The real issue is more structural. Democrats don’t have a base that responds to fake news. Democrats have people who are involved and interested and care about facts, and they have a much larger group that doesn’t give a crap and neither fake news or real facts can penetrate their apathy. > > Republicans, on the other hand, are a little different. They have a large group of people who can be motivated by fake news. And more Republicans are motivated than Democrats. > > So given these structural issues, what does Democratic fake news accomplish? We already know, because it exists. It motivates the far left, fact averse Chomskyites, who don’t matter anyway, and nobody else. At one point [half](http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2011/04/more-than-half-of-democrats-believed-bush-knew-035224)of Democrats thought Bush was involved in 9/11. The idea that democrats are above believing lies is just crazy arrogance. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/12 "2016-12-13T16:07:37Z")
Democrats are perfectly capable of believing lies. It’s just that Democrats tend not to elect people who believe the lies. (\*Make up \*the lies, sure - that’s politicians of all ilks. But the current Congressional GOP is filled with people stupid enough to believe the lies they’re being told. Not a lot of Democratic Gohmerts out there.) ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/13 "2016-12-13T16:20:40Z")
Aside from issues of whether it would work, there’s a real question of whether it’s a good idea to start down the trail. Indulging the left’s CT-minded, unquestioning, irrational electorate is going to give them power they currently lack. It won’t be reasonable, responsible candidates who get the benefit in the long term. It will be someone like the last Green Party VP pick who has talked about the Kiev [“Zio-Nazi government”](http://blog.wallack.us/2016/08/still-thinking-about-supporting-green.html) getting the benefit. (Seriously, he believes there’s Zionist oligarchs conspiring to support Nazi street thugs.) At that point we’re dedicating our political process to debating which music to play on the fiddle while the republic burns. There’s a better place to engage our perfectly natural but irrational tribal impulses than politics. It’s called sports. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/14 "2016-12-13T16:27:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wow, Reid must be the luckiest man alive, that all of the allegations he made up coincidentally turned out to be true. [From the Washington Post:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/15/harry-reid-lied-about-mitt-romneys-taxes-hes-still-not-sorry/?utm_term=.6ea37d9fecd7) > [@](#): > > The problem with Reid’s allegation? It’s just not true. We know that, at least in 2011 and 2010, Romney did pay taxes. How do we know that? Because Romney released his tax returns for those years. In 2011, Romney paid $1.9 million in taxes; in 2010, he paid slightly more than $3 million in taxes. > . > . > . > Yet Reid (D-Nev.) not only refuses to retract the allegation but also seems to take great pride in it. When pressed by CNN’s Dana Bash last year about continuing to defend a statement that is not true, Reid responded, “Romney didn’t win, did he?” > . > . > . > Now, in a new interview with WaPo’s Ben Terris, Reid echoes those sentiments. Here’s Reid’s full response to Ben’s question about the Romney attack: > > > [@](#): > > > > People bring that up, it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done. Why? Because I knew what he had done was not be transparent and forthright about his taxes and to this day he hasn’t released his tax returns. … Did I want to do that? No. I had the information, I tried to get somebody else to do it. I tried to get somebody in the Obama ‘reelect,’ I tried to get one of the senators, I tried to get one of the outside groups, but nobody would do it. So I did it. And with that, like everything, I think in life, here’s something I learned from my father, if you’re going to do something, don’t do it half-assed, don’t play around. With the Mitt Romney stuff, I didn’t play around. … > > Again, to be clear, Reid is just wrong. Romney didn’t release all 10 years of his tax returns but the returns he did release showed that he paid taxes. Well? ---
**Author:** ![quimper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7c8e57/32.png) [@quimper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quimper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/15 "2016-12-13T16:39:10Z")
It won’t work, at least [according the teenagers who make a living generating the fake news for ad revenue](https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became-a-global-hub-for-pro-trump-misinfo?utm_term=.sbRAbW7ZR8#.imbO56MPz8). > [@](#): > > Earlier in the year, some in Veles experimented with left-leaning or pro–Bernie Sanders content, but nothing performed as well on Facebook as Trump content. > “People in America prefer to read news about Trump,” said a Macedonian 16-year-old who operates [BVANews.com](http://BVANews.com). There’s plenty of [fake Bernie](http://worldnewsfrompolitics.com/) and Hillary news sites, but no one was interested. Maybe facts have a liberal bias? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/16 "2016-12-13T16:43:43Z")
Trump is a Russian patsy. Oh… Hidden History: Black people invented NASCAR. Republicans are lizard people! They want global warming to happen. Shocking new study: consuming deer meat shrinks your penis! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/17 "2016-12-13T17:54:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He lied about Romney’s tax returns in 2012 and admitted it. Now he claims that the Trump campaign was actively working with Russia. > > Looks like fake news does work on Democrats after all. Two posters just said they think Harry Reid is telling the truth. Except he’s a known pants on fire liar, and he has no evidence to support his current fever dream either > > [Either Harry Reid has an explosive secret on Trump's Russia ties or he's just making things up - Vox](http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/12/13928500/harry-reid-trump-russia) > > > [@](#): > > > > Reid is also something of an unreliable narrator. **In 2012, he falsely claimed to have seen Mitt Romney’s tax returns** , and said that they showed Romney hadn’t paid taxes in more than a decade. Reid has since acknowledged lying about that charge, but hasn’t apologized. > > > > “Romney didn’t win, did he?” Reid said. “I don’t regret that at all.” > > > > What’s funny is that Reid can admit he’s a liar and Democrats still believe him. So I withdraw my last post. Democrats do believe fake news. (bolding mine) What Vox wrote is a lie. Harry Reid never claimed to have seen Mitt Romney’s tax returns. So now you’re wrong again (by proxy) AND you’re helping to spread fake news. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/18 "2016-12-13T20:49:22Z")
Vox is a reliable news source. But sure, they did get that detail wrong. Reid said someone that did see them told him, which was also something he just made up. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/19 "2016-12-14T02:44:14Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > At one point [half](http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2011/04/more-than-half-of-democrats-believed-bush-knew-035224)of Democrats thought Bush was involved in 9/11. The idea that democrats are above believing lies is just crazy arrogance. This astounded me enough that I clicked the link … and sure enough, this claim is itself fake news. Only 22.6% thought it “very likely.” To get to almost 51% they had to add in those who thought it “somewhat likely.” Disclaimers: (1) Even with this nitpick, the statistic is astounding and I agree it proves that the GOP doesn’t have a monopoly on batshit conspiracy theories. (2) Some will nitpick this nitpick and hijack the thread into the meaning of “somewhat likely.” Bottom-line: If I find something _somewhat_ likely, it is an exaggeration to say I _believe_ it to be true. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-their-own-infowars-if-you-cant-beat-em/774576/20 "2016-12-14T03:55:36Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > This astounded me enough that I clicked the link … and sure enough, this claim is itself fake news. Only 22.6% thought it “very likely.” To get to almost 51% they had to add in those who thought it “somewhat likely.” Actually, **puddleglum** ’s misrepresentation is worse than that because he claimed, “At one point half of Democrats thought Bush was involved in 9/11” but the phrasing of the question was “How likely is it that people in the federal government either assisted in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop the attacks because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?” I think “was involved in 9/11” and “took no action to stop” are rather different concepts. In particular, the phraseology of the question is a bit problematic…For example, suppose you think that he may not literally have known about 9/11 but that he was pretty negligent in ignoring intelligence that there was a serious threat of a terrorist attack and that he subsequently used the attacks as a pretext to go into Iran. _ **That** _ is pretty much known to be true and it is close enough to the phraseology of the question that I could see people at least putting themselves in the “somewhat likely” category because they are thinking along those lines.