# Democrats need to be more realistic about their candidates **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 22, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444 "2017-02-22T04:15:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/1 "2017-02-22T04:15:16Z")
There’s one difference I always note between reading conservative and liberal sources on politics, and it was true even before Donald Trump brought a tidal wave of weirdness into last year’s campaign. Republican writers, describing a candidate like Mitt Romney or John McCain are able to acknowledge that he has flaws. Democratic writers, and the other hand lean towards saying [things like this](http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/morford/article/Is-Obama-an-enlightened-being-Spiritual-wise-2544395.php): Barack Obama isn’t really one of us. Not in the normal way, anyway. … you want to know what it is? The appeal, the pull, the ethereal and magical thing that seems to enthrall millions of people from all over the world … Many spiritually advanced people I know (not coweringly religious, mind you, but deeply spiritual) identify Obama as a Lightworker, that rare kind of attuned being who has the ability to lead us not merely to new foreign policies or health care plans or whatnot, but who can actually help usher in a new way of being on the planet, of relating and connecting and engaging with this bizarre earthly experiment. These kinds of people actually help us evolve. They are philosophers and peacemakers of a very high order, and they speak not just to reason or emotion, but to the soul. Back in 2008, Slate magazine actually had a feature called _Obama Messiah Watch_ collecting evidence of the awesome, incredible, sometimes supernatural things that Obama accomplished according to the liberal media. [It can be found here.](http://academic.udayton.edu/race/2008electionandracism/Obama/Obama58.htm) Nor was Obama the only Democratic candidate to transcend the earthly plane and rise to a higher level of existence. No less a source than Lena Dunham’s newsletter [told us this](http://www.lennyletter.com/politics/a613/hillary-clinton-is-more-than-a-president/) about Hillary: I love Hillary Clinton. I am in awe of her. I am set free by her. She will be the finest world leader our galaxy has ever seen. … Maybe she is more than a president. Maybe she is an idea, a world-historical heroine, light itself. … Hillary is Athena This stuff hurts the Democrats. In Obama’s case, high views of the man led the Democrats to assume that he would bring the Democrats permanent victory, and they were blindsided by the huge gains that Republicans made in Congress and at lower levels. In Hillary’s case, they simply assumed that their candidate would coast easily to victory because they were blind to her massive flaws. In ancient Rome, they had the practice of _[Memento Mori](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori)_. Perhaps in 2020 Democrats could devise a 21st century version of the same idea to remind each other that their candidate is, in fact, a mortal human being with failings just like everyone else. Maybe a new Google Chrome extension which would take every article that mentions the candidate’s name and add the sentence, “Remember that \_\_\_\_\_\_ too is mortal” to the end of it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/2 "2017-02-22T04:51:26Z")
Why do you care what Lena Dunham says about this subject or any other subject? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/3 "2017-02-22T05:16:51Z")
The fact is that just about any candidate has a given subset of supporters who harbor similar sentiments about their candidate. Even the current occupant of the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/4 "2017-02-22T05:23:58Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Why do you care what Lena Dunham says about this subject or any other subject? He didn’t quote Lena Dunham. He quoted a piece by Virginia Heffernan posted on Lena Dunham’s web site. In addition to that it appears he spectacularly missed the point of the Heffernan piece he quoted. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/5 "2017-02-22T06:29:59Z")
I can probably find you dozens of writings which say the same about Trump. Or McCain. Or Bernie. Or Cameron, Gandhi, Merkel and pretty much every democratically elected leader ever. Hyperbole is as human as breathing oxygen. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/6 "2017-02-22T06:40:51Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Republican writers, describing a candidate like Mitt Romney or John McCain are able to acknowledge that he has flaws. Democratic writers, and the other hand lean towards saying [things like this](http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/morford/article/Is-Obama-an-enlightened-being-Spiritual-wise-2544395.php): “Democratic writers”? You found a woo-heavy op-ed piece by an enthusiastic Obama supporter who teaches yoga and writes pop-culture columns, and you really consider that representative of “Democratic writers”? Gonna need a cite for the claim that “Democratic writers” in general “lean towards” that perspective, thanks very much. The “Democratic writers” I read in actual political journalism are anything but uncritical towards Obama. > [@ITR champion](#): > > No less a source than Lena Dunham’s newsletter :eek: This has got to be some kind of apotheosis of the art of desperate straw-grasping. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/7 "2017-02-22T07:24:30Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > There’s one difference I always note between reading conservative and liberal sources on politics, and it was true even before Donald Trump brought a tidal wave of weirdness into last year’s campaign. Republican writers, describing a candidate like Mitt Romney or John McCain are able to acknowledge that he has flaws. Democratic writers, and the other hand lean towards saying [things like this](http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/morford/article/Is-Obama-an-enlightened-being-Spiritual-wise-2544395.php): > > Barack Obama isn’t really one of us. Not in the normal way, anyway. > … you want to know what it is? The appeal, the pull, the ethereal and magical thing that seems to enthrall millions of people from all over the world … Many spiritually advanced people I know (not coweringly religious, mind you, but deeply spiritual) identify Obama as a Lightworker, that rare kind of attuned being who has the ability to lead us not merely to new foreign policies or health care plans or whatnot, but who can actually help usher in a new way of being on the planet, of relating and connecting and engaging with this bizarre earthly experiment. These kinds of people actually help us evolve. They are philosophers and peacemakers of a very high order, and they speak not just to reason or emotion, but to the soul. > > Back in 2008, Slate magazine actually had a feature called _Obama Messiah Watch_ collecting evidence of the awesome, incredible, sometimes supernatural things that Obama accomplished according to the liberal media. [It can be found here.](http://academic.udayton.edu/race/2008electionandracism/Obama/Obama58.htm) > > Nor was Obama the only Democratic candidate to transcend the earthly plane and rise to a higher level of existence. No less a source than Lena Dunham’s newsletter [told us this](http://www.lennyletter.com/politics/a613/hillary-clinton-is-more-than-a-president/) about Hillary: > > I love Hillary Clinton. I am in awe of her. I am set free by her. She will be the finest world leader our galaxy has ever seen. … Maybe she is more than a president. Maybe she is an idea, a world-historical heroine, light itself. … Hillary is Athena > > This stuff hurts the Democrats. In Obama’s case, high views of the man led the Democrats to assume that he would bring the Democrats permanent victory, and they were blindsided by the huge gains that Republicans made in Congress and at lower levels. In Hillary’s case, they simply assumed that their candidate would coast easily to victory because they were blind to her massive flaws. > > In ancient Rome, they had the practice of _[Memento Mori](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori)_. Perhaps in 2020 Democrats could devise a 21st century version of the same idea to remind each other that their candidate is, in fact, a mortal human being with failings just like everyone else. Maybe a new Google Chrome extension which would take every article that mentions the candidate’s name and add the sentence, “Remember that \_\_\_\_\_\_ too is mortal” to the end of it. …did you hear about [this guy](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/19/salute-cardboard-cut-out-president-every-day-says-supporter/) a couple of days ago? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/8 "2017-02-22T08:29:31Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > …an enthusiastic Obama supporter who teaches yoga… So “seventies”. Aikido, _feng shui_, and orgasmic breathing techniques. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/9 "2017-02-22T10:10:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So “seventies”. Aikido, _feng shui_, and orgasmic breathing techniques. Yeah. Not for me. Still, I prefer it to “thirties” nostalgia. Fascism & the Klan… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/10 "2017-02-22T11:57:21Z")
Thank you for this totally objective and not at all cherry-picked analysis of this super important issue! Wow am I ever glad I read it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/11 "2017-02-22T12:40:46Z")
The OP must not have any Facebook friends who are fans of Dolt 45. These people seriously do not think he is capable of error and was chosen by God to lead the people out of the impending liberal Muslim apocalypse. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/12 "2017-02-22T13:23:05Z")
Odd how I don’t remember even one poster here who was over the moon about Hillary. Regardless, the fact was then and still remains that she would have been a far better President, warts and all, than Herr Man-Baby. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/13 "2017-02-22T13:25:23Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Thank you for this totally objective and not at all cherry-picked analysis of this super important issue! Wow am I ever glad I read it. It expresses his true concern for the future of the Democratic party. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/14 "2017-02-22T13:31:37Z")
Here’s TV evangelist Pat Robertson saying, not tongue-in-cheek, that Trump is part of God’s plan for the US: > **[Pat Robertson: Those Who Oppose Trump Are Revolting Against God's Plan](https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/02/16/pat-robertson-revolting-against-god/)** > > The televangelist said during a 15 February 2017 broadcast that people who oppose President Trump are 'revolting against what God’s plan is for America.' Here’s W saying that God himself chose him: > **[Bush says God chose him to lead his nation](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/nov/02/usa.religion)** > > Book reveals how President's religious and political beliefs are entwined - and claims he did pray with Blair. (I suppose that’s the candidate setting expectations too high for himself) It seems to me that quoting Pat Robertson and an actual Republican president is less of a nut-picking enterprise than what was shown in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/15 "2017-02-22T14:44:24Z")
I’d kind of like to know in what alternative reality \*\*ITRChampion \*\*is living in where it wasn’t blatantly obvious to virtually every democrat that Clinton was a flawed candidate, to the point where a charismatic socialist out of left field damn near got the nomination. Maybe it’s the world where a random writer on a comedy personality’s website is the single most influential democratic pundit in the history of the world! What a bizarre thread. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/16 "2017-02-22T15:06:42Z")
If Democrats need to be more realistic about anything, it’s not their candidates - it’s their **opponents**. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/17 "2017-02-22T15:09:14Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Here’s TV evangelist Pat Robertson saying, not tongue-in-cheek, that Trump is part of God’s plan for the US: > > [http://www.snopes.com/2017/02/17/pat-robertson-revolting-against-god/](http://www.snopes.com/2017/02/17/pat-robertson-revolting-against-god/) > > Here’s W saying that God himself chose him: > > [Bush says God chose him to lead his nation | World news | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/nov/02/usa.religion) > > (I suppose that’s the candidate setting expectations too high for himself) > > It seems to me that quoting Pat Robertson and an actual Republican president is less of a nut-picking enterprise than what was shown in the OP. there’s a [cartoon I saw](https://pics.onsizzle.com/seven-deadly-sins-pride-greed-envy-rat-sloth-gluttony-lust-12473272.png) which is topical. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/18 "2017-02-22T15:12:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Odd how I don’t remember even one poster here who was over the moon about Hillary. > > Regardless, the fact was then and still remains that she would have been a far better President, warts and all, than Herr Man-Baby. Then you missed me, because I was over the moon about her. I knew a lot of others who were as well. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/19 "2017-02-22T15:37:00Z")
Sorry to double post- I think it’s worth noting that you can be really excited about a candidate while being realistic about their flaws. All candidates are flawed, even charismatic ones. Bernie had a ton of flaws that were truly problematic. Many of HRC’s flaws were of her own doing but many were manufactured by her opponents (to the left and right). Republican candidates are equally flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444/20 "2017-02-22T15:39:43Z")
I disagree with the premise of the OP. It does seem to me that there’s a lot more of this type of hero-worship on the Democratic side, probably due to the “youthful idealistic” nature of many of their strongest supporters. But I don’t think it was a factor in their losses, and if anything it’s probably a net positive, election-wise. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’d kind of like to know in what alternative reality \*\*ITRChampion \*\*is living in where it wasn’t blatantly obvious to virtually every democrat that Clinton was a flawed candidate, to the point where a charismatic socialist out of left field damn near got the nomination. If you want to add to that, I don’t think Sanders was/is at all charismatic. He had as much success as he had by being the True Believer candidate, not by being charismatic. (Not enough True Believers to push him over the top, though, plus Clinton’s support from minorities.) But I disagree that Clinton was a flawed candidate. All candidates have flaws, and in the heat of a campaign these get magnified astronomically. And when you lose, then these flaws seem like the cause and you look like a flawed candidate. (This is especially so when trying to justify losing to an even-more flawed candidate in Trump.) But Clinton was not particularly flawed by the standards of other candidates. If she was as flawed as people like to depict her in hindsight, she would never have had the support of the vast majority of the Democratic establishment upfront. These people are not fools. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-be-more-realistic-about-their-candidates/780444.md?page=2)