# Democrats need to get ahead of the Syrian refugee issue and triangulate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 18, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865 "2015-11-18T03:30:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/361 "2016-06-15T17:45:09Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > She moved to the center on radical Islam once Bernie was gone, so given that and the Clintons record of triangulation, I think her moving center on refugees is likely. Someone didn’t listen to Clinton’s speech after Orlando, where she cautioned about Islamophobia in response. And her Facebook page went after Trump for continuing to say Muslims should be barred from coming into the country. Doesn’t sound like triangulation to me. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/362 "2016-06-15T17:51:47Z")
At this point it’s not really an issue because we’ll never import significant numbers. Germany is basically taking the entire population of Syrian refugees on themselves because no one else will. What is an issue is refugees and terrorism. The media likes to call this problem “homegrown”, but it’s not except in the most technical sense. This last dude had an Afghan father who was pro-Taliban. That’s a problem we imported, not a problem that started here. The Boston Marathon bombers were Chechens, born in one of the ex-Soviet republics. One of the problems with refugees is that while they may not consider the US to be an enemy, they are often radicalized, and will bring their war to us. For quite some time, Armenian terrorists were a problem in Europe. They also tried to bomb the Turkish consulate in Philadelphia and the FBI foiled the attack. Cuban refugees also brought their war with them here(and our government supported that war). So to say that taking in refugees is perfectly safe is pure nonsense. And some groups are going to be more volatile than others. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/363 "2016-06-15T17:52:38Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Someone didn’t listen to Clinton’s speech after Orlando, where she cautioned about Islamophobia in response. And her Facebook page went after Trump for continuing to say Muslims should be barred from coming into the country. > > Doesn’t sound like triangulation to me. What do you call it that during the primary, when asked in the debates last fall about the term “Radical Islamic terrorism,” she played to the liberal base, but three days ago, finally used something involving the term “Islam”? Pivoting? I watched her speech. She never used the term “Islamophobia” in it, which is a BS term. The Facebook/Twitter pages are for the base. She’s in GE mode now. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/364 "2016-06-15T17:53:25Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Someone didn’t listen to Clinton’s speech after Orlando, where she cautioned about Islamophobia in response. And her Facebook page went after Trump for continuing to say Muslims should be barred from coming into the country. > > Doesn’t sound like triangulation to me. That is triangulation. If she favored Islamophobia that wouldn’t be triangulation, it would be just going far right. Triangulation by definition means taking a position between your party’s mainstream and the other party’s mainstream. Being willing to say “radical Islam” is something Obama would rather not do, so it puts her to his right, but it keeps her to the left of the Republicans and way to the left of Trump specifically. So it’s good triangulation. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/365 "2016-06-15T18:21:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The media likes to call this problem “homegrown”, but it’s not except in the most technical sense. This last dude had an Afghan father who was pro-Taliban. Feel free to cite that. No, the problem wasn’t imported. Omar radicalized _himself_. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/366 "2016-06-15T18:28:52Z")
Nope, his father did: > **[What has the Orlando gunman's father said?](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-father-seddique-mateen-taliban-god-punish-gays/)** > > Omar Mateen's father says he doesn't know what drove his "terrorist" son, but he has his own view on gays, and a history linked to radicalism ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/367 "2016-06-15T18:34:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That is triangulation. If she favored Islamophobia that wouldn’t be triangulation, it would be just going far right. Triangulation by definition means taking a position between your party’s mainstream and the other party’s mainstream. Being willing to say “radical Islam” is something Obama would rather not do, so it puts her to his right, but it keeps her to the left of the Republicans and way to the left of Trump specifically. So it’s good triangulation. It’s hilarious to see you guys argue about the use of the term “radical Islam”. Both Hillary and Obama tore that GOP obsessive talking point to shreds yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/368 "2016-06-15T18:45:08Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > What do you call it that during the primary, when asked in the debates last fall about the term “Radical Islamic terrorism,” she played to the liberal base, but three days ago, finally used something involving the term “Islam”? Pivoting? > > I watched her speech. She never used the term “Islamophobia” in it, which is a BS term. The Facebook/Twitter pages are for the base. She’s in GE mode now. > [@adaher](#): > > That is triangulation. If she favored Islamophobia that wouldn’t be triangulation, it would be just going far right. Triangulation by definition means taking a position between your party’s mainstream and the other party’s mainstream. Being willing to say “radical Islam” is something Obama would rather not do, so it puts her to his right, but it keeps her to the left of the Republicans and way to the left of Trump specifically. So it’s good triangulation. These are the most tortured attempts to get Clinton to “triangulate” on refugees that I’ve seen. Btw, from Clinton’s speech after Orlando: "Inflammatory, anti-Muslim rhetoric – and threatening to ban the families and friends of Muslim Americans, as well as millions of Muslim business people and tourists from entering our country – hurts the vast majority of Muslims who love freedom and hate terror. So does saying that we have to start special surveillance on our fellow Americans because of their religion. It’s no coincidence that hate crimes against American Muslims and mosques have tripled after Paris and San Bernardino. That’s wrong and it’s also dangerous. It plays right into the terrorists’ hands." That seems like railing against Islamophobia to me. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/369 "2016-06-15T18:50:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s hilarious to see you guys argue about the use of the term “radical Islam”. Both Hillary and Obama tore that GOP obsessive talking point to shreds yesterday. Sort of. In the process Obama exposed his own tortured logic. The real reason Obama doesn’t want to say “radical Islam” is that a lot of our allies are radical Muslims. The Saudis practice a radical form of Islam. So he’s kinda telling us why we don’t do it, without really telling us why we don’t want to do it: because we want to stay allied with radical Muslims like the Sauds. Actually, we ally ourselves with radical Muslims in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Syria, pretty much everywhere. That’s the real reason our leaders don’t want to say it. Our friends are a huge part of the problem, spreading their poisonous ideology. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/370 "2016-06-15T18:53:36Z")
Sounds like you conflate “radical Islam” with “Islam”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/371 "2016-06-15T18:54:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sort of. In the process Obama exposed his own tortured logic. The real reason Obama doesn’t want to say “radical Islam” is that a lot of our allies are radical Muslims. The Saudis practice a radical form of Islam. So he’s kinda telling us why we don’t do it, without really telling us why we don’t want to do it: because we want to stay allied with radical Muslims like the Sauds. > > Actually, we ally ourselves with radical Muslims in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Syria, pretty much everywhere. That’s the real reason our leaders don’t want to say it. Our friends are a huge part of the problem, spreading their poisonous ideology. No, that’s not the real reason that Obama doesn’t want to say it. He’s made it pretty clear, and it’s pretty reasonable. Further, there’s no benefit from using it. It doesn’t help us in any way, and it doesn’t hurt the terrorists in any way. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/372 "2016-06-15T18:58:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sort of. In the process Obama exposed his own tortured logic. The real reason Obama doesn’t want to say “radical Islam” is that a lot of our allies are radical Muslims. **The Saudis practice a radical form of Islam**. So he’s kinda telling us why we don’t do it, without really telling us why we don’t want to do it: because we want to stay allied with radical Muslims like the Sauds. > > Actually, we ally ourselves with radical Muslims in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Syria, pretty much everywhere. That’s the real reason our leaders don’t want to say it. Our friends are a huge part of the problem, spreading their poisonous ideology. No, they practice a very _conservative_ form of Islam. Heard Lindsey Graham on CNN earlier. He said that Obama’s reasons for not using the magic phrase were wrong while at the same time criticizing Trump for going to war with an entire religion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/373 "2016-06-15T18:58:45Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > She never used the term “Islamophobia” in it, which is a BS term. “Eurabia” is a bullshit term. “Islamofascism” is a bullshit term. “Islamophobia” is not. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/374 "2016-06-15T19:17:35Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > These are the most tortured attempts to get Clinton to “triangulate” on refugees that I’ve seen. > > Btw, from Clinton’s speech after Orlando: > "Inflammatory, anti-Muslim rhetoric – and threatening to ban the families and friends of Muslim Americans, as well as millions of Muslim business people and tourists from entering our country – hurts the vast majority of Muslims who love freedom and hate terror. So does saying that we have to start special surveillance on our fellow Americans because of their religion. > > It’s no coincidence that hate crimes against American Muslims and mosques have tripled after Paris and San Bernardino. > > That’s wrong and it’s also dangerous. It plays right into the terrorists’ hands." > > That seems like railing against Islamophobia to me. she used the term “anti-Muslim,” not "Islamophobia, in her speech. The guy who popularized the term “Islamophobia” has [admitted he was wrong](http://www.meforum.org/blog/2016/04/islamophobia-advocate-admits-error) to do so. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “Eurabia” is a bullshit term. “Islamofascism” is a bullshit term. “Islamophobia” is not. why? fact is Europe is fundamentally changing bc of Muslim immigration. And Islamism is fascism, given how Hassan Al-banna was inspired by Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/375 "2016-06-15T19:21:22Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > she used the term “anti-Muslim,” not "Islamophobia, in her speech. The guy who popularized the term “Islamophobia” has [admitted he was wrong](http://www.meforum.org/blog/2016/04/islamophobia-advocate-admits-error) to do so. > why? fact is Europe is fundamentally changing bc of Muslim immigration. And Islamism is fascism, given how Hassan Al-banna was inspired by Hitler. Actually, he was correct originally and he became radicalized to the right himself. Islamophobia is a perfectly accurate and useful term. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/376 "2016-06-15T19:26:34Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Actually, he was correct originally and he became radicalized to the right himself. Islamophobia is a perfectly accurate and useful term. sounds more like an SJW term to me used to silence critics of Islam or Muslim society. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/377 "2016-06-15T19:30:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > My views were softening prior to Cologne. Now I say vet 'em harder. Ask them about women especially. Asking them what they think of homosexuality couldn’t hurt either. They say anything even remotely un-PC, back to the camp. Do they not do this during the vetting process now? (Serious question here – I’m not being sarcastic, just in case it came across that way.) Because, while I hardly ever agree with **adaher** , this suggestion seems pretty reasonable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/378 "2016-06-15T19:39:08Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > You do make a point, tho 50k refugees does produce a lot of children who could have, at least for me, the worst of both worlds’ politics; social conservatism, but anti-American exceptionalism, anti-Israelism, and religious anti-blasphemy laws, new blue laws, etc. Hasn’t happened so far. What is “anti-American exceptionalism”? > [@](#): > > Also, the Muslim Syrian refugees are not fleeing religous/racial persecution; Yazidis and Christians are! You’re mistaken; ISIS persecutes Shia Muslims, and various Shiite militias persecute Sunni Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/379 "2016-06-15T19:53:57Z")
Even better you can ask the muslims to wear the nice green Crescent badge - no better it is to tattoo it on them, perhaps the cheek for the maximum visibility. Impossible to be too safe from the insidious creeping menace of the world dominating sect… Back to the camps for them. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/380 "2016-06-15T20:13:04Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > why? fact is Europe is fundamentally changing bc of Muslim immigration. no it is not, but since you sadly continue to repeat the fearmongering and the outright lies made, repeated and promoted Fox NEws, we can understand you have been frightened into a bizarre cartoon version of the Europe where the lies of the No Go Zones and the Muslim only Enclaves are actually true, and not in fact the gross lies and distortions arising out of the religious bigots outright lying. It is sad that factual corrections remain impossible to process. > [@](#): > > And Islamism is fascism, given how Hassan Al-banna was inspired by Hitler. This is a fictional timeline, it is sad to see false information repeated… Hassan Al Banna had already launched the Ikhouane well before people outside of Europe knew of the Nazis or of Hitler, he had already achieved his scale to have his headquarters set up in the Cairo by 1932 having the national scale But in any case this is a sad distortion that is promoted and sowed by the anti-islamic radicals and hatemongers who try for their ideological reasons to attach every thing to the Nazis. Hassan Al Banna was a somewhat reactionary traditionalist and the Brotherhood was a traditionalist anti-colonial movement reaction to the British colonial rule and its abuses. Inspired by Hitler? He preceded and his vision was traditionalist. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > sounds more like an SJW term to me used to silence critics of Islam or Muslim society. No it is a proper term for those so fearful they repeat proven false information. But as you are the person who thinks that “communists” invented the idea of the transgender, we have the proper context. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865.md?page=20)