# Democrats need to get ahead of the Syrian refugee issue and triangulate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 18, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865 "2015-11-18T03:30:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/461 "2016-06-17T17:51:33Z")
Thinking about it, some native Americans may lose their peyote but I figure being a Muslim would be protected as much as being a Communist. No? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/462 "2016-06-17T17:58:18Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Thinking about it, some native Americans may lose their peyote but I figure being a Muslim would be protected as much as being a Communist. No? See the national disgrace known as the [Smith Act Trials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act_trials_of_Communist_Party_leaders). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/463 "2016-06-17T18:09:14Z")
Also one can always easily ban Communists from coming into the country. A bit more difficult from banning Muslims from coming in the country (regardless what Trump thinks). ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/464 "2016-06-17T18:43:25Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Also one can always easily ban Communists from coming into the country. A bit more difficult from banning Muslims from coming in the country (regardless what Trump thinks). And this is the key point for me. I would like to retain protections for American citizens to be able to subscribe to whatever nutty notions they like (with certain corner case exceptions of course), while making it just as easy to bar a non-citizen from entering the country on the basis of religious ideology as on the basis of political ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/465 "2016-06-17T19:01:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > And this is the key point for me. I would like to retain protections for American citizens to be able to subscribe to whatever nutty notions they like (with certain corner case exceptions of course), while making it just as easy to bar a non-citizen from entering the country on the basis of religious ideology as on the basis of political ideology. Well, that’s supremely un-American, so I doubt it will happen. Besides–the latest mass killer was born in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/466 "2016-06-17T19:32:41Z")
But his parents were not born in the U.S.: they came here in adulthood. His father, who has now been added to the “no fly list”, put a video on Facebook \*after \*the shooting in which he said “God himself will punish those involved in homosexuality.” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/467 "2016-06-17T20:20:32Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But his parents were not born in the U.S.: they came here in adulthood. His father, who has now been added to the “no fly list”, put a video on Facebook \*after \*the shooting in which he said “God himself will punish those involved in homosexuality.” There are Christians who say the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/468 "2016-06-17T20:26:05Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > His father, who has now been added to the “no fly list”, put a video on Facebook \*after \*the shooting in which he said “God himself will punish those involved in homosexuality.” I think he’s just pissed to find out he had a gay son. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/469 "2016-06-17T20:29:59Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > There are Christians who say the same thing. Sure. And we should avoid importing those too (like from Uganda). But you’re going to be hard pressed to make your false equivalency stick overall in the face of those poll numbers finding an average of 1% in all those Muslim countries (and even among British Muslims) agreeing that homosexuality is morally acceptable. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I think he’s just pissed to find out he had a gay son. It’s looking more likely that he didn’t, per NPR: > [@](#): > > SHAPIRO: And what about reports we’ve been hearing all week that he may have been to this gay nightclub before, that perhaps he was struggling with his own sexuality? What have you learned from investigators about that thread? > > TEMPLE-RASTON: Well, the FBI and local police are sifting through literally hundreds of tips, and they haven’t interviewed everyone. That said, we understand they have yet to find anyone in the gay community in Orlando who says he actually hooked up with Mateen or had a physical interaction with him. > > SHAPIRO: Physical interaction meaning, like, sex. > > TEMPLE-RASTON: Sex or even kissing him - any physical interaction. And that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but officials are surprised that all they’ve heard about so far is people saying that they saw him in the Pulse Nightclub before the attacks. And there were some reports that Mateen had approached people on gay matchmaking sites. Investigators are still running that to ground, but they haven’t ruled out that both of these things were just part of his attack plan, basically his attempt to case a possible target. And that’s where the evidence has led them so far, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/470 "2016-06-17T20:31:16Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But his parents were not born in the U.S.: they came here in adulthood. His father, who has now been added to the “no fly list”, put a video on Facebook \*after \*the shooting in which he said “God himself will punish those involved in homosexuality.” Could you clarify the relevance of his parents’ status, please? And maybe re-read US vs. Wong Kim Ark? Signed, the son of an adult who immigrated to the United States. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/471 "2016-06-17T20:34:53Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Could you clarify the relevance of his parents’ status, please? And maybe re-read US vs. Wong Kim Ark? > > Signed, the son of an adult who immigrated to the United States. I’m not saying he wasn’t a citizen or that such rights should be stripped from anyone. I’m saying he never would have been born here if his parents had not been admitted. And maybe my youngest kids, when they are my age, will not live in a country with other American citizens like him who will be born here in the 2020s if we admit their parents now. An ounce of prevention and all that. ETA: I’m also saying, leave aside the extreme acts like this killing. I don’t want people like his dad in the country, voting and contributing to the culture. Our homegrown bigots, we are stuck with. We don’t need to import a surplus supply. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/472 "2016-06-17T20:52:17Z")
I don’t buy that shit. He spent time at the club. Just because he never hooked up with anybody doesn’t make him straight. There are millions of gay people who have never had gay sex … or any sex for that matter. He was cruising Grinder. For what? Research? The fucker was closeted and he let his little “yeehaw Isis” bullshit give him a nice tidy excuse for taking out all those \*fags \*that he could never have because it was all too shameful for him. That’s the view from the cheap seats. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/473 "2016-06-17T20:57:02Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I don’t buy that shit. Who are you refuting?? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/474 "2016-06-17T21:02:32Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Who are you refuting?? The FBI and Orlando police, I guess. But wait: isn’t this the same FBI everyone’s trusting to figure out who the refugees are? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/475 "2016-06-17T21:02:37Z")
**SlackerInc** > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I think he’s just pissed to find out he had a gay son. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > It’s looking more likely that he didn’t, per NPR: ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/476 "2016-06-17T21:07:14Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > The FBI and Orlando police, I guess. Well, the FBI and Orlando Police, via SlackerInc’s interpretaion, via, Temple-Ralston, via Shapiro, via NPR, which said nothing at all about whether the shooter was gay or not. The circumstantial evidence sure points that he was. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/477 "2016-06-17T21:27:37Z")
SlackerInc’s “interpretation” is a pretty straightforward one. I mean hiw else would you interpret “they haven’t ruled out that both of these things were just part of his attack plan, basically his attempt to case a possible target. And that’s where the evidence has led them so far, anyway.”? It’s still an open question though obviously. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/478 "2016-06-17T21:36:46Z")
Exactly. Basically, Shapiro (who is gay BTW) asked about that theory, and Temple-Raston, who is reporting from Orlando and has been talking to investigators, say what they have learned so far has led them to discount the likelihood of that theory, but not rule it out altogether. Shapiro also interviewed a professor of psychology at UC-Davis a couple days ago about this more general tendency to speculate this way from the peanut gallery: > [@](#): > > SHAPIRO: So you’re saying - I think a lot of people may have heard this idea that the most anti-gay people are themselves repressed homosexuals. Are you saying that’s got no founding in science? > > HEREK: I’m saying that that has happened, but, yeah, we don’t have support to say that that’s typically the case. And, in fact, we have much more evidence for saying that it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/479 "2016-06-17T21:37:54Z")
Neither have they ruled out that it was just a place he went to spot beefcake … until he snapped. Not to mention, both interpretations could be true. He hung out at the place often. Then his frustrations bubbled over and he made a plan … now to just go back my favorite watering hole and scope out my sight lines … or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/480 "2016-06-17T21:39:31Z")
Regardless. I do realize that I’m wildly speculating … and there is really no way we can state one way or another who this asshole liked jerking off to. He’s dead. We can’t really ask him any more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865.md?page=25)