# Democrats need to get ahead of the Syrian refugee issue and triangulate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 18, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865 "2015-11-18T03:30:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/41 "2015-11-18T15:31:59Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > This is ironic, because you are describing two groups of irrational people, and my answer is “it’s supposed to appeal to the rational people”, which you earlier (I believe) claimed were the ones who would not have any issues with the resettlement program. > > This is what I (and Sam Harris, and Bill Maher, and clearly you as well) have been wondering for some time. It’s bizarre and frustrating to be sure. \>2015 \>Unironically citing Sam Harris and Bill Maher ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/42 "2015-11-18T15:38:00Z")
I’m not following your logic. People, even educated people, are worried about terrorism: True. The Democrats should take a strong stand against terrorism: Sensible. Therefore, we should limit the refugees we take in: Wait, what? What do they have to do with anything? If anything, a strong stance against terrorism should mean doing more to help their victims, not less. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/43 "2015-11-18T15:45:24Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But what I’m proposing is that instead of the 10,000 refugees President Obama proposes to take, we open our doors to far more–maybe even ten times as many. But women and young children only. The men can stay and fight ISIS. So, break up families?! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/44 "2015-11-18T15:47:57Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Second: the fact is even if most or all of the refugees don’t like ISIS (not likely), there is a high chance many of these refugees hold views [incompatible](http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/) with the American way of life. Neither is an ideological test for immigrants/refugees compatible with the American way of life. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/45 "2015-11-18T16:08:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > All they have to do is point out that not accepting the refugees is letting ISIS win. Hell, I’m already pushing for tolerance of Muslims based on not letting ISIS win, and getting some headway. I don’t see how adhering to existing policy wrt immigration and asylum means letting ISIS win. Our actions should be driven by our own interests, independent if those actions align with ISIS or not. As to the proposal in the OP, sacrificing principles for political expedience is unseamly. If the body politic has moved away from your principles, it doesn’t mean you should change your principles, it means you shouldn’t lead. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/46 "2015-11-18T16:11:35Z")
Wow, this is a crazy idea. Was the OP being sarcastic? My demographic (white, 50’s) can be won over on the refugee issue, but Hillary needs to step up her game. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/47 "2015-11-18T16:23:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Neither is an ideological test for immigrants/refugees compatible with the American way of life. E.g., there have been times past when the USG deported immigrants for being anarchists or Communists – and I hope no one here will seriously contend that is anything but a disgraceful stain on American history. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/48 "2015-11-18T16:28:10Z")
I’d respond but apparently I need to check in with MoveOn and Michael Moore to find out what I should think first. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/49 "2015-11-18T16:29:38Z")
“We shouldn’t respond by essentially calling them idiots. That way lies electoral disaster.” On this thread the “essentially” was dispensed with… ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/50 "2015-11-18T16:34:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not following your logic. People, even educated people, are worried about terrorism: True. The Democrats should take a strong stand against terrorism: Sensible. Therefore, we should limit the refugees we take in: Wait, what? What do they have to do with anything? If anything, a strong stance against terrorism should mean doing more to help their victims, not less. If “limit” means “take twice as many, or more”, then sure. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/51 "2015-11-18T16:42:00Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But what I’m proposing is that instead of the 10,000 refugees President Obama proposes to take, we open our doors to far more–maybe even ten times as many. But women and young children only. The men can stay and fight ISIS. A young woman blew herself up with a suicide vest during the raid in Paris this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/52 "2015-11-18T16:49:58Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Lots of people react irrationally in the moment. > > Pandering to those transient irrational reactions, as understandable as they are, putatively in service of political expediency, is not leadership; it is not what leaders should be doing. Of course it is what many in the GOP are doing and proves that they are not worthy of the mantle. True this. On 9/11 I distinctly remember being scared going up the elevator to my apartment. It was only later when the shock wore off that I rationally realized that it was unlikely that Al Qaeda would bother running an airplane into a 16 story apartment building even if it was on the outskirts of DC. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/53 "2015-11-18T16:56:29Z")
I reject the premise of the OP. It may indeed be politically expedient to refuse entry to Syrian refugees now just as it was politically expedient to send that boatload of Jews back to Germany in the 1930s, but it would be just as morally wrong. When these attacks happen, the xenophobes and racists come out of the woodwork and Republicans bend over backwards to cater to them. For Democrats to follow this immoral lead would be suicide. If you’re a hater, you already vote Republican and catering to you makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/54 "2015-11-18T18:37:57Z")
So Bob, you think Kevin Drum is way off to worry about “electoral disaster”? I don’t. BTW, all the appeals to statistical unlikelihood could also apply to regular American mass shootings. Does that mean we should stop opposing the NRA? Be consistent now! > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > A young woman blew herself up with a suicide vest during the raid in Paris this morning. Was she the mother of small children? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/55 "2015-11-18T19:11:06Z")
The problem with such craven triangulation is that voters prefer the real thing, not some watered down swill from a non-believer trying to trick them. You also depress your own base. You set up a dilemma. Which is better? 1. Families together, but not in America. 2. Women and children in America, men stranded. I don’t think the second option is particularly attractive to most people at first glance, even the theoretical nativists you’re trying to woo. You still want mass immigration. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > As for the OP-- we’re one year away from the election. The Paris attacks, as horrible as they are, will not be a significant factor by then. I could see it being trotted out as the goto reference for terrorism fears. We need to do X, unless you want a repeat of Paris here in America! > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > \>2015 > \>Unironically citing Sam Harris and Bill Maher You’ve been posting a lot of 4chan buzzwords and now you’re green texting but trying to pretend it’s different with red. It’s time for an intervention. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/56 "2015-11-18T19:12:14Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Was she the mother of small children? Her wiki page doesn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/57 "2015-11-18T19:18:59Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > So where are the predominantly Muslim countries that are taking in Christians with open arms? Not the ones on the eastern Mediterranean where they have been living since Christianity was founded. I mean Muslim countries that were basically 0% Christian until not long ago, but have now settled a significant number of Christians and are fine with them building churches and so on. IOW why is it a one way street? The West generally bases its standards on something other than the enemies it’s trying to prove it’s better than. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/58 "2015-11-18T19:27:51Z")
If we can allow in greater numbers of women and children, then why can’t we allow in greater numbers of men, too? There’s no particular reason to suspect any of them, of any age or gender, of terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/59 "2015-11-18T19:34:24Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > The West generally bases its standards on something other than the enemies it’s trying to prove it’s better than. So you cop to believing the West is morally and culturally superior to the Muslim world, and this is basically a white man’s burden type thing. Isn’t that bigoted in its own way? Or at least very patronizing. > [@marshmallow](#): > > I don’t think the second option is particularly attractive to most people at first glance, even the theoretical nativists you’re trying to woo. You still want mass immigration… How many times do I have to point out that I am NOT trying to appeal to nativists? The framing I propose in my OP explicitly attacks nativists! Like Kevin Drum, I believe the electoral risk extends into populations that otherwise have no problem with people of various skin complexions immigrating to the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![FightMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71e660/32.png) [@FightMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FightMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/60 "2015-11-18T19:36:40Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > You’ve been posting a lot of 4chan buzzwords and now you’re green texting but trying to pretend it’s different with red. It’s time for an intervention. That anyone on this site besides **Qin** knows what any of that is amuses me for some reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865.md?page=4)