# Democrats need to get ahead of the Syrian refugee issue and triangulate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 18, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865 "2015-11-18T03:30:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/141 "2015-11-20T00:48:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > **Gigobuster** , how is that an answer to \*\*adaher’s \*\*point? I don’t even… 😕 It is superior indeed to the vetting the fighters are getting. IOW a reply to his idea that the vetting was not superior to who we give arms to. The first step for the refugees is already a superior one by the pedantic reason that they are not in a theater of war, but in a refugee camp. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/142 "2015-11-20T02:25:02Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > OR…we as Democrats can triangulate and say "Okay, \*\*it might not be a good idea to bring in Syrian men. \*\*But we are not going to be like the heartless Republicans and turn away women and their small children. Isn’t this still fearmongering, just watered down? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/143 "2015-11-20T03:07:51Z")
Well, the Democrats are triangulating furiously. Veto proof majority in the House to toughen up screening standards and make high officials take personal responsibility for this policy. I’m sure SDMB Democrats are just so proud today. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/144 "2015-11-20T03:09:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, let’s abandon our principles and international obligations and toss thousands of innocent lives to the wolves in order to assuage a momentary panic. I’m onboard with Smapti’s sarcasm here. The OP is being silly. Hopefully, over the next year, the shock of this incident will pass. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/145 "2015-11-20T03:25:29Z")
Yet we have a policy that rewards the victmizers more than the victims. Religious minorities avoid the refugee camps because they get assaulted and murdered there. So instead, our policy favors those who persecute religious minorities or tolerate such persecution. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/146 "2015-11-20T03:30:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, the Democrats are triangulating furiously. Veto proof majority in the House to toughen up screening standards and make high officials take personal responsibility for this policy. > > I’m sure SDMB Democrats are just so proud today. I am not proud of the 47 Democrats who voted with the 242 Republicans (all of them) for that bill. I am proud of the other 137 Democrats who voted against it. 137 Democrats had the spine to try to lead and not pander; not one Republican did. The Senate Democrats mean to block it and we will see if they can. There is no question that in the moment pandering to the terror is the politically easy thing to do. It takes bravery and some wisdom, some actual commitment to doing what is right, to stand up to that. A minority of Democrats lacked that spine today but most had it; not one Republican had any. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/147 "2015-11-20T03:42:32Z")
The Republicans believe there’s a problem that needs to be solved. The Democrats believe in higher principles. The 47 believed in their political careers. They are the only cowards here. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/148 "2015-11-20T03:51:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Republicans believe there’s a problem that needs to be solved. The Democrats believe in higher principles. The 47 believed in their political careers. They are the only cowards here. As I said in another thread the whole Republican congress now has a very uplifting motto: ‘We will be brave in our fight to defend our cowardice!’ ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/149 "2015-11-20T04:23:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Republicans believe there’s a problem that needs to be solved. The Democrats believe in higher principles… Maybe some in the GOP are honestly just stupid enough to believe that they are actually solving a problem rather than contributing to making several problems much worse and creating new one. But some I think are not dumb, just craven and experienced at playing to people’s fears. Likewise I think for the smallish minority of Democrats who voted the same way. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/150 "2015-11-20T04:46:22Z")
In terms of the bill itself, all it really does is make high administration officials take responsibility in such a way that it would be impossible to pass the buck. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/151 "2015-11-20T05:02:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Republicans believe there’s a problem that needs to be solved. The Democrats believe in higher principles. The 47 believed in their political careers. They are the only cowards here. I would actually say only those 47 Dems showed courage, mainly because its not easy to break ranks. They’re also going against a vocal part of their base. Picture if 47 GOPers went against the grassroots on a hot botton issue. and I’m very sad the [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) wing of the Dem Party seems to have infected the party. I might be leaving it if it is not cured. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/152 "2015-11-20T05:06:42Z")
I share your frustration with the MoveOn types, but go where? If you think the GOP looks like a viable alternative, we are not as similar as I thought. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/153 "2015-11-20T05:17:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I share your frustration with the MoveOn types, but go where? If you think the GOP looks like a viable alternative, we are not as similar as I thought. the sane part of the Democratic Party needs to do to them what the GOP did to the Bircher types years ago: shut them up to never return. Get back the Jewish voters who went to Romney but had voted O in 2008; etc. One of the ways the [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) crowd loses is if radical Islam’s protection from the left is destroyed (there is hope; see the Salon link I posted and the forwardprogressives link. Hopefully, this time period is just an analogue to Democrats in the late '40s and early '50s: a decent size wing flirted with communism, and got eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/154 "2015-11-20T05:27:25Z")
Okay, but that doesn’t answer my question. What if they don’t make the changes you are hoping for? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/155 "2015-11-20T05:52:24Z")
If neither party fits your views well, you vote for both. Just pick the best candidate in each race. Worrying about the direction of a party as a whole will just keep you up at nights. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/156 "2015-11-20T06:02:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If neither party fits your views well, you vote for both. Just pick the best candidate in each race. Worrying about the direction of a party as a whole will just keep you up at nights. No wonder you don’t sleep. 😉 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/157 "2015-11-20T06:04:15Z")
Hey, I admit the Republican Party is doing a bad job. It’s why so many conservatives just identify as independent. But on this issue they are right. If we’re already going to wait two years to bring in a pittance of refugees, what’s a little longer to make sure we get it right? The bill should be signed by the President, and if not, his veto should be overridden. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/158 "2015-11-20T06:22:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Hey, I admit the Republican Party is doing a bad job. It’s why so many conservatives just identify as independent. > > But on this issue they are right. No. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/18/repeat-after-me-obama-is-not-admitting-100000-200000-or-250000-syrian-refugees/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/18/repeat-after-me-obama-is-not-admitting-100000-200000-or-250000-syrian-refugees/) > [@](#): > > In October, Donald Trump earned Four Pinocchios for repeatedly making the outlandish claim that President Obama was planning to admit 200,000 refugees from war-torn Syria. > > Rather than drop the figure, Trump has boosted it to 250,000. And other candidates have followed his lead with exaggerated figures, just not quite as high. Ben Carson claimed 200,000 from the Middle East “region” and 100,000 from Syria; Fiorina said 100,000 from Syria. > [@](#): > > Of those admitted to the United States from Syria so far, about half have been children and a quarter are adults over 60. There are slightly more men than women, but only 2 percent of those admitted are single males of combat age, officials said. > > Representatives for Trump, Carson and Fiorina did not respond to queries. > The Pinocchio Test > > There is no excuse for repeated, false statements that have no basis in fact – and have been proven wrong. These candidates each earn Four Pinocchios. > Four Pinocchios > [@adaher](#): > > If we’re already going to wait two years to bring in a pittance of refugees, what’s a little longer to make sure we get it right? The fact is that they lied and are mistaken about the screening and what Syrians are Being let in. > [@adaher](#): > > The bill should be signed by the President, and if not, his veto should be overridden. Again, the congress Republicans are using fear to score political points and defend their cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/159 "2015-11-20T06:23:58Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Okay, but that doesn’t answer my question. What if they don’t make the changes you are hoping for? I don’t know. I hate to be a one issue voter. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865/160 "2015-11-20T07:27:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In terms of the bill itself, all it really does is make high administration officials take responsibility in such a way that it would be impossible to pass the buck. And of course every Secretary of State should take personal responsibility that every driver is safe for the road, review every test, sign every form, and be personally accountable for any collision that occurs. It is not often that [the Attorney General and the FBI Director have a joint news conference,](http://www.wsj.com/articles/before-house-vote-republican-lawmakers-assail-refugee-system-1447955993) but they did regarding this bit of [micromanagement overreach](http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/19/politics/fbi-director-james-comey-refugee-legislation/index.html). > [@](#): > > Attorney General Loretta Lynch and FBI Director James Comey, in a rare joint news conference, said the measure was unworkable. > > “To ask that we have my FBI director make personal guarantees would effectively grind the program to a halt, would essentially not provide the safety and security that I think really is the concern of everyone looking at this issue,’’ Ms. Lynch said. The experts, from the Attorney General to the FBI Director to the Director of Homeland Security, all tell us that this bill “would make it impossible to allow any refugees into the U.S.,” that it “is a bad bill because it seeks to micromanage the process in a way that is counter productive to national security to our humanitarian obligation and the overall ability to focus on Homeland Security.” These are not Obama toadies. These are the actual expert judgements. The bill would add no security and would cause major harms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-need-to-get-ahead-of-the-syrian-refugee-issue-and-triangulate/737865.md?page=9)